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Yeah that's true, I agree no one needs my permission! Do you have any opinions about whether TTV is lying or not?
Not really -- like I said it's an irrelevancy. Clearly they are a bit of a weakman though, which is why I'm not super-interested in going through their claims to assess plausibility. Are they the ones who did a bunch of locational data analysis showing (?) suggestive behaviour around ballot drops? They probably aren't lying about that, but of course it doesn't mean their analysis is correct. As I recall the debunkings of it that I saw were pretty misinformed/naive as well though.
Look at it this way -- BLM-associated groups lie all the time about the dangers of being black in America. This doesn't mean that race relations in America are not an interesting thing to discuss, but if I make a post saying "I only want to talk about these assholes who are lying, what a buncha maroons, amirite" I am not making a quality contribution to the discussion.
Yes that's them. They were willing to share their data with D'Souza, but not law enforcement. I'm curious though, what exactly establishes them as a 'weakman'? What standards do you rely on to make that determination on any given topic? If a BLM group made a wildly popular documentary full of lies about the dangers of being black in America and it received favorable media coverage, do you believe that discussing the lies would not be relevant?
They don't seem very transparent nor particularly rigorous -- do you disagree? Your whole thesis here seems to be that they are a weakman.
Not in a vacuum -- if some black poster just got pulled over and arrested by a bunch of racist hicks I want to hear about it, and would consider it a valid (and valuable) contribution to the discussion.
I admit I don't understand your meaning of weakman. I tried to sketch out how to define the term a while ago and Julian Sanchez's description seems the most fitting:
I don't see how weakman would fit for TTV unless I'm using them to somehow make a claim about all stolen election allegations. I'm not doing that and I already said that would be an invalid argument.
As Dean says, you are totally doing that and have done that a lot in the past -- nobody is interested in TTV per se, they are interested in whether the election is fraudulent. What purpose does it serve to restrict discussion to TTV?
Anyways, if you want to talk about TTV I can say that I have substantial experience with exactly the kind of analysis that they claim to have performed with the mobile data -- IMPO what they claim to have done is completely technically feasible, and the various deboonking articles I've seen on the topic seem either ignorant of the realities of that technology or quite dishonest themselves.
This doesn't really say anything one way or the other about the quality of that analysis -- as I said, TTV is not very transparent in their methodology, and it would be easy to get incorrect results out of such datasets via either malice or blunder. I can't say anything about the truth value of what they've done without seeing their work.
That's what I think of TTV -- about the same as what I think of those who are trying to discredit them. Which is not much, and not really a very interesting discussion to have if you ask me.
I've already said upthread: my interest here is wanting to avoid time-wasting Gish gallops and motte-and-bailey diversions, because an unfortunately common rhetorical trick used by some when they encounter arguments inconvenient to their position is to try and change the subject.
And also: The reason I included that disclaimer was explicitly to avoid Gish galloping or similar distractions when discussing specifics. The scenario I have in mind is someone who believes that the 2020 election was stolen comes across the TTV claims I've made, but is frustrated because they realize they can't substantively rebut them. They're reluctant to admit that out loud, because they see arguments as soldiers and believe that conceding TTV to be liars will further erode their overall claims about the 2020 elections. Accordingly, their only viable response is evasion; doing everything possible to avoid discussing TTV directly, and instead preemptively changing to a different subject they believe to be more defensible.
If you're not interested in TTV that's cool! You don't have to comment! If you want to start a thread called "Why the overall 2020 stolen election claims are still valid even though TTV specifically has admitted they have no evidence of it" you're welcome to do so!
Or I can respond in this thread! I can post wherever I want, it's crazy!
You seem to think that people who disagree with you in these matters should just submit to whatever form of discussion you think works best for your arguments -- why would they want to do that?
If you think somebody is Gish galloping, you don't need to respond to them either -- what's with this need to control the conversation?
Why are you so concerned about “controlling the conversation” instead of engaging on the object level or simply blowing the OP out of the water with great evidence from some other source.
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