This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Yield isn’t binary. The present is clearly undesirable, although in my opinion so is ‘let them rot’. For better or worse, nobody’s going back to the Old World. Some peace, ideally a lasting and prosperous one, is desirable. The question isn’t about yielding but about what must be done to ensure a high quality and functional society.
Discipline, order, a decline in promiscuity and a restoration of marriage, an extreme taboo on children out of wedlock, more limited divorce, strong male role models including male teachers for boys. Even limited affirmative action, to create black elites in professions like medicine and law who will return to black communities professionally aren’t unjustifiable. All this requires money, and whether it’s for police or other programs it won’t be done without (what is ultimately) the tax contributions of other groups.
And, without being facetious, one cannot forget that they did yield, and it ultimately led us here.
I see no reason to believe peace is possible. Jefferson had it half-right:
He didn't predict defection of the liberal elite, of course. It took Orwell for that, with the alliance of the high and low against the middle.
The question is exactly about yielding. Do the elites keep forcing whites (and Asians of all sorts, and probably eventually non-black Hispanics) to self-flagellate as 'racists' and continue bending and distorting everything in favor of URM/POC/etc while being unable to hide the extent of the distortion? Or do we quit doing that and let the chips fall where they may?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link