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Isn't that very much disputed within Christianity? In addition the kids he speaks of are almost certainly Hindu and/or Muslim. I am guessing almost none of them are baptized. And then even if the kids get in because they were too young to actively choose, will the parents who are also most likely Hindu and Muslim be reunited with them?
Catholics:
"Likewise, whosoever says that those children who depart out of this life without partaking of that sacrament shall be made alive in Christ, certainly contradicts the apostolic declaration, and condemns the universal Church, in which it is the practice to lose no time and run in haste to administer baptism to infant children, because it is believed, as an indubitable truth, that otherwise they cannot be made alive in Christ. Now he that is not made alive in Christ must necessarily remain under the condemnation, of which the apostle says, that "by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation." That infants are born under the guilt of this offense is believed by the whole Church."
"The Roman Catholic view is that baptism is necessary for salvation and that it frees the recipient from original sin. Roman Catholic tradition teaches that unbaptized infants, not being freed from original sin, go to Limbo (Latin: limbus infantium), which is an afterlife condition distinct from Hell. This is not, however, official church dogma."
The Orthodox:
"And forasmuch as infants are men, and as such need salvation; needing salvation, they need also Baptism. And those that are not regenerated, since they have not received the remission of hereditary sin, are, of necessity, subject to eternal punishment, and consequently cannot without Baptism be saved; so that even infants ought, of necessity, to be baptised."
or the Protestants:
"Since we must make judgments about God’s will from his Word, which testifies that the children of believers are holy, not by nature but by virtue of the gracious covenant in which they together with their parents are included, godly parents ought not to doubt the election and salvation of their children whom God calls out of this life in infancy. "
The Baptists would back you up however:
"We do believe, that all little Children dying in their Infancy, before they are capable to choose either Good or Evil, whether born of Believing Parents, or Unbelieving Parents, shall be saved by the Grace of God, and Merit of Christ their Redeemer, and Work of the Holy Ghost, and so being made Members of the Invisible Church, shall enjoy Life everlasting; for our Lord Jesus saith, of such belongs the Kingdom of Heaven. Ergo, We conclude, that that opinion is false, which saith, That those little Infants dying before Baptism, are damned."
In other words aren't you assuming the best possible case for your argument here? What if you are right about God existing, but that those kids will never be reunited with their families, either because they will go to Limbo/Heaven as they were too young to choose Christ and their parents are Damned, through not being Christian? Would you still maintain that pain is worth it? Or that you are correct but that they will be reunited with their parents in Gehenna being as neither was saved, and suffer even more torment?
Your argument could be true for Christian baptized kids born to Christian parents and false for everyone else.
I'm just making a claim without arguing every single one of my positions from first principles. Of course if I'm wrong about my religion then I'm wrong about my religion, that goes without saying, and therefore my claim that kids go to heaven wouldn't be correct. If I were wrong I'd have to rethink essentially every belief I have.
Given the quality and good faith (or lack thereof) of the comment I was responding to, spending hours crafting a full dissertation on all of my beliefs would just be a waste of time.
edit: to answer your question, though, my own experience was that very great pain was very tolerable. This doesn't make it good or mean there are endless lessons to be learned from it, or even that any amount of pain is "worth it." SOME amount is useful to learn certain lessons though.
I think I should have been more careful with how I worded my original comment, given how people seem to be interpreting it.
You should perhaps consider that you're entirely wrong. There is not one shred of evidence for your feelings and had you been born in ancient greece your credulous butt would have just believed in the greek pantheon instead. It is all made up dude.
Do you really have the audacity and arrogance necessary to believe you are one of the few million out of 117 billion humans to have ever lived to see the light of the ONE TRUE GOD/RELIGION? Do you know how wild that sounds to someone not in the thrall of your particular sect?
You're the one parroting the mainstream position here. I suspect we'd both be pantheon believers, but we'd also both be different people entirely without access to the scientific method etc. There is no me if I had been born in ancient Greece.
Other than that though, thanks, you've really given me a lot to chew on. I had never considered before that I might be wrong.
Atheism is not mainstream. Most people are religious adherents, 85% according to the most recent surveys. I'm the counterculture rebel here, not you. You would have been cheering on the death of socrates on charges of atheism and corrupting the youth.
First you say my position must be wrong because it's so rare, then you say I'm in the mainstream and following along with the rest of the sheep. Which is it?
¿Por Qué No Los Dos? You are both are lucky enough to belong to the ONE TRUE RELIGION and also to the "mainstream" that believes in some kind of magical force we just can't quite ever prove. At least yours has magic underpants!
Hey, you seem to have made a bunch of decent posts before this whole drama, but posts like this are just not interesting, and also are against the rules. This is heat, not light. I think you are correct that it is bad to believe in magic and omnipotent beings who judge humans on morality because it's part of a powerful cultural force because it isn't true. But these are just insults, and they're insults that i'd downvote on the 'other site' for not being funny enough.
I was attempting to add a little levity to the conversation without being overtly offensive. I agree. I strayed from the path here, Tenaz hasn't been any better, clearly looking up all my posts and replying to them now. Not that it is a worthy excuse.
The religiosity and the respect it is given is getting out of hand here though. Time to burn some witches before they run the town. I just read a "hitler did nothing wrong" post a minute ago.
Here is a more entertaining rejoinder to a different comment. "Opening with a forwards from grandma style meme that wouldn't look out of place in a kevin sorbo movie is not a good start to this ramble to nowhere."
I have actually deprogrammed at this point exactly 1 Jehovah's Witness (female friend) 1 church of latter-day saints adherent (male friend), and one Baptist (my wife). So maybe it is screaming into the void. But I have had some limited success with it.
It made me chuckle anyhow.
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