site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 11, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

7
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

its a hamfisted fable about Anglo-Saxons perfecting the universe by killing off fascists and commies in outer space while flying starships staffed by every race and nation in the galaxy.

I've had an ongoing frustration with my favorite space operas about how they portray humanity relative to other species in the galaxy, until I realized, embarrassingly recently, how every single sci-fi story I enjoyed is just Americans talking about how they see their place in the world.

It is very American 😀 In Deep Space Nine, we see Sisko rejuvenating baseball, which has fallen out of favour as a national pastime. They go up against a Vulcan team (and of course beat them). Personally, I have no idea why an Irish guy like Miles O'Brien would bother with baseball, but it's an American show for majority American viewers, so we're going to see American culture represented there.

I think they might have had some self-realisation about this, with the root beer scene.

It's more the "Humanity just showed up on the scene, they barely have history relative to the other species, but are surprisingly resourceful, which is how they are making a such splash, punching above their weight. Due to that, to other species sometimes they come off as admirable, sometimes as arrogant, sometimes as dangerous" that bothered me. Star Trek, Mass Effect, Star Control... take your pick. Baseball, root beer, and other American cultural artifacts are presented as American cultural artifacts, so they don't bother me at all. Kinda implying that America represents the spirit of humanity, does.

Americans thought that America represented the spirit of humanity long before they were plausibly correct to do so. Novus Ordo Seclorum is definitely making that claim. Arguably Americans thought that America represented the spirit of humanity long before there was an America - John Winthrop's City upon a hill speech is arguably making the claim in 1630.

Well then, that does explain the kind of art they create, but as much as I can appreciate the American spirit as long as it stays in America, I resent the claim that it represents me.