@Amadan's banner p

Amadan

"I would put a screwdriver through your eyeballs if I could"

5 followers   follows 0 users  
joined 2022 September 05 00:23:21 UTC
Verified Email

				

User ID: 297

Amadan

"I would put a screwdriver through your eyeballs if I could"

5 followers   follows 0 users   joined 2022 September 05 00:23:21 UTC

					

No bio...


					

User ID: 297

Verified Email

@ZorbaTHut explained it (which is to say, there really isn't much more explanation than what we've said before).

My personal opinion is that we probably weren't in as much imminent danger of being banned as many people (including Zorba) believe, but it was inevitable that we would be banned someday. I always watched /r/CultureWarRoundup as a kind of canary, because despite their much smaller footprint, I honestly thought they'd get banned before we would. Their witches are pretty open, and SneerClub definitely knows about them, which means presumably they must get reported fairly frequently.

But I do have two things to contribute which I never would have posted on reddit. First of all, I will confirm that it was indeed Chtorrr who visited us and dropped the "friendly notice" in our mod channel.

And that being said, a few months back there was a "Mod Summit" (via Zoom) to which all subreddit mods were invited. I was the only motte mod who I guess was bored enough to zoom in (I even sent them questions! None of which made it to the queue that got answered, naturally). As you might expect, almost all the talks were about things like "How to build safe communities" and "How to self-care and preserve your mental health while having to deal with all these terrible people," etc.

The most valuable thing I got out of it were screenshots.

Without further comment: https://imgur.com/a/4oIS59D

Oh no, you don't get to duck out that easily.

You started this, and you started it with multiple, very specific, very damning statements about a very specific person (JK Rowling) which you claimed were obviously and provably true. And when I took on the challenge and went down the list of every one of your accusations, you suddenly play "Oh well, that wasn't my point, I don't actually care about Rowling"?

No, dude. You clearly do care about Rowling.

I will say that 'carefully litigating every word JK Rowling has ever said to determine whether it is about X of just mentions X' is exhausting and frustrating.

If we're talking about JK Rowling (and we are), it actually matters what she actually said. I mean, if you were accusing me of being a Holocaust-denying white nationalist who also thinks we should abolish the age of consent, and you based that on my saying some things that Holocaust-denying white nationalists who also think we should abolish the age of consent say, you can bet I would care a lot about carefully litigating the words I actually said, because if you are accusing someone of holding reprehensible views, it matters whether they actually said the things you are accusing them of! You don't get to just accuse them of believing all the things the very worst people in their "faction" say!

Frustrating because it's really super irrelevant to my larger point about the rhetoric and factions involved here, which is the relevant thing I actually care about, which few have bothered to respond to

I directly addressed your entire "This is what her faction believes and this is what her rhetoric inevitably leads to" argument! If you disagree with me, go ahead and point out where my reasoning is flawed, but don't claim I didn't bother to respond to it!

I find it frustrating that you make specific, provably untrue statements (for example, repeating bullshit about how Troubled Blood is about a serial killer who pretends to be trans and tries to sneak into women's spaces, as evidence of how much Rowling hates trans people) and when this is contradicted by people who actually read the book, you don't even acknowledge it, you're just all "Oh, I don't actually care about Rowling."

So many of the comments are nit-picking about whether I'm being 'fair' to Rowling, and I frankly don't give a fuck about one person like this and what they did or didn't say, the interesting issues are the larger factional concerns

I mean, we can all agree Rowling has FU money and immense popularity and can't actually be harmed by anyone saying mean and dishonest things about her. The reason we're arguing about Rowling is because people much less wealthy and powerful than her who say similar things (the people in her "faction" as you keep calling it) are suffering tangible harms, harms which you apparently believe are justified. So yeah, if you claim that JK Rowling wants a trans genocide, or that her "faction" does and she's abetting it, then that has implications for people who are not JK Rowling and that's why you are being challenged, not because everyone here is a JK Rowling fan.

I'd be happy to just say 'sure, whatever, Rowling is a perfect angel who has never done anything wrong, if that's what you want to believe;

Transparent straw man. Stop this kind of disingenuous whining.

can we please talk about my actual point though'

Yes, let's. It's your turn.

Tell you what - if you survive, let us know, and I will unban you. I'm banning you now because you've been warned and at this point you seem to just be trolling for attention, and frankly, I don't want to indulge you any further in your strange suicidal fetish.

All the questions you ask aren't really questions because you don't actually listen to what anyone says.

My take is that posting the same thing over and over is annoying and borders on egregiously obnoxious.

Look man, I believe you really feel these things and you're unhappy. But this place isn't a therapy group, and while people are usually pretty willing to offer advice and feedback when someone posts about their personal struggles, when someone whines about the exact same thing over and over again, using exactly the same examples and verbiage, it becomes self-indulgent and a bit selfish. Your exercises in self-pity are beginning to look like some sort of shame kink in which you're making us all unwilling participants.

I'm loathe to invoke the single issue posting rule and ban you, or tell you you're just not allowed to talk about this anymore. But find some other things to talk about, and if you are going to post about the despair of being unlaid, stop reposting essentially the same thing over and over.

"Why does my outgroup push for obviously terrible things when we all know they don't actually believe the things they say they do?" Bonus: "Let me ask a leading question suggesting the uncharitable answer."

(Before you get indignant at my steelmanning the other side, I'll stipulate that I am not personally in favor of either open borders or lax criminal prosecution. Policy-wise, and probably even politically, I am probably much closer to you than the single college-educated women you so despise.)

Here's the actual answer: people in favor of open borders actually believe open borders are good. They are not nationalists and largely regard nationalism with distrust if not contempt; they believe freedom of movement, and particularly the freedom of people to seek better economic opportunities in wealthier countries, should not be hindered. They largely see Westerners living in wealthy nations as benefiting from a manifestly unfair birthplace luck-of-the-draw, and don't see why Guatemalans or Bangladeshis or Nigerians or Syrians should have to suffer just because they were not so lucky.

They (including even the women) do not think in terms of "military-aged men" (and definitely not in terms of "third-world men") and its implications.

They support lax prosecution of criminals for similar bleeding-heart reasons: they really do believe the rhetoric that fuels "defund the police" and BLM and "disproportionate impact on marginalized communities." They think they are being compassionate to the oppressed.

Stated more bluntly, you are asking "Why do they want to unleash hordes of violent rapists upon themselves?" You are "confused" because you don't believe that their motives are actually what they say they are, and you don't believe that they don't perceive the same outcome (hordes of violent rapists) that you do. Even if what you believe is actually correct, they don't believe that. They aren't endorsing it for some secret unstated reason they won't admit to.

You seem to be playing some sort of game here, and I strongly suspect you are trolling.

You have posted several times like this, long form culture war articles which you don't explicitly agree with, even suggest you might disagree, but this appears to be merely a guise for introducing the article without committing yourself to actually endorsing it. "Look at this article by a white nationalist; isn't this interesting?"

Normally, while I might consider this a little sketchy, you aren't the only regular poster who makes a habit of being somewhat oblique about your agenda, and we don't exactly have a rule requiring you to be explicit about your POV and agenda. (The requirement to speak plainly comes close, but people often misinterpret this as "You must always be direct and explicit and literal about what you're saying," and that's not really what it means.)

You've been warned a couple of times by @naraburns, and your now-deleted responses are consistent with this pattern of being coy about your intentions. @naraburns has also observed your tendency to write trollish posts that seems calculated to provoke responses without really saying anything.

Following your last posting spree, you deleted all your previous posts. While we allow people to delete their posts (though we'd prefer they didn't), this also looks quite suspect.

All of this is to say: whatever you are up to, you have attracted the attention of the mods, and while this post in itself is borderline (you basically repost the article with minimal commentary), you are starting to look like a bad actor. Whatever game you are playing, start being upfront and stop looking like someone who's not posting in good faith (and is likely a previously banned poster).

Your thesis is quite coherent if one believes, as you do, that the Holocaust is a hoax and Jews are waging a shadow-war against Western civilization.

If one doesn't believe that, well, you still make a convincing argument that the Holocaust is overemphasized in American education and that Jews still suffer from a neurotic fear of persecution that is dramatically disproportionate to the actual level of threat offered to them. (I actually do believe this.) But if one supposes, just for the sake of argument, that there really was a concerted effort to exterminate them within living memory, one can surely see a motive for feeling this way that is not mere zeal to convert the heathens, no?

This post is terrible for the very obvious reason that you are not speaking plainly or in good faith, and that runs contrary to the ethos of this sub. People (including mods) do not want to have to parse an allegorical post to figure out what you're really talking about, which is why we have the rule requiring you to make your point reasonably clear and plain.

What an ugly and irrational age, and we are lucky to be rid of it.

Right, you're talking about trans ideology. Make your point reasonably clear and plain. If you want to compare one thing to another, that's fine, but state outright what comparison you are making and then be prepared to defend it.

This kind of obnoxious attempt to see how many gotchas you can score gets you a two-day ban, to discourage others from pulling this.

This post is a perfect example of waging the culture war, rather than talking about it. You are doing literally nothing but. Really, it's a masterclass in illustrating what kind of posts we do not want here and what this place is not for.

A little while ago, I read a story of a recent scandal which I think conclusively shows that the Dems have finally gone too far.

So your lead is "Why my political enemies are terrible." The "story" is about a policy that resulted in a criminal doing some crime. And it's disingenuous, because "a little while ago" implies you're at least talking about a recent event, which might be worth some discussion and debate, but no, your punchline is from 1988. Granted, a lot of folks here are too young to remember Michael Dukakis and the Willie Horton ad, but most people who know anything about 80s politics are familiar with it.

Perhaps this could have been pertinent, if that was actually your objective. It's a classic example which is still brought up today of a political ad that was both powerful and incurred a lot of criticism for its racialized imagery, and thus certainly has some parallels to contemporary debates about political messaging and "dogwhistling." You could have also talked about the policy that Bush was criticizing in more detail. I'm not sure how you'd make it relevant today without being pure "boo Democrats," but it's not like old political dustups from the 80s can never be made relevant for discussion today.

But you didn't even make a shadow of an attempt. It's just pure "Boo Democrats" and "boo black people" plus potshots at all the people you have petty personal grievances with.

And this is your entire schtick.

Each of your last three bans was preceded by multiple warnings in which you were told to bring more light and less heat, and each time, you just come back with another flamebait essay about why the racial group you've chosen to talk about today is anathema, your outgroup is evil, and everyone who disagrees with you is a stupid-head.

Banned, permanently unless the other mods think you deserve yet another chance.

There are already multiple top-level threads about this. Don't start another thread just to ask open questions like this.

For all the people reporting @Sky's posts, I'm 50/50 on serious schizo-poster or troll. @ZorbaTHut has always leaned towards letting people bring their craziest hot takes to the Motte to be dissected and torn apart; we generally only "censor" a post if it's clearly bad faith, or if it violates one of our discourse rules.

@Sky, my dude, I don't know if you really believe these things or if you're just seeing how many Flat Earth arguments you can get away with making, but if you keep dropping posts like this without any actual engagement, my priors will shift towards "Hit and run trolling from SneerClub" and I will stop clicking the "approve" button.

Your perspective is interesting, but speaking of own-goals, your categorization of different circles of "whiteness" which basically boils down to "People who kinda look white and include people I respect like Tchaikovsky," where the Romans were definitely white but Italians are iffy, reads exactly like "race is a social construct" except you're constructing it in a way convenient to your particular (somewhat idiosyncratic) white nationalist sentiments.

Basically, you count the swarthy Mediterranean peoples and the pale-faced Slavs as more or less white because they are definitely European and they fought Muslims, and Japanese and Persians can count as kinda sorta white because you admire them and you'd like to have them as allies. This was almost comical back when apartheid South Africa classified Japanese as "white" as it exposed how absurd any claims of basing white supremacy on actual genetics were.

I am not surprised that, balking at classifying Jews as malignant foes because you actually know and like Jews, you find yourself in an uncomfortable spot with your fellow white nationalists. You clearly struggle with having wholeheartedly embraced HBD where blacks are concerned, yet being aware that your allies include people who really do want to commit genocide and are motivated by racial animus, not a calculated and rationalist desire to optimize the most benevolent traits of Western civilization. I'd wish you luck in squaring that circle, but I don't actually wish you luck in finding a group of "white nationalists but without the literal Nazis."

I find deBoer very frustrating.

He's a smart guy. He clearly articulates a lot of problems with leftist ideology, and he can speak to those problems more authentically than most critics because he is a leftist. An unapologetic, literal Marxist, not an "anti-woke ex-liberal" or a "disaffected gray triber" but someone who actually thinks most leftists aren't leftist enough.

And yet I feel like he circles around the truth and will sort of vaguely gesture in its general direction, but will not confront it because he cannot stand what he will see.

I say this as someone who has reluctantly concluded that HBD is largely true, and wishes it wasn't. I think that's where Freddie is at, except he can't make the leap from "It would be really unfortunate and sad if this were true" to "It's true."

A lot of his solutions are actually practicable even (especially) if HBD is true! He has a humane and realistic vision of a world where some kids just aren't ever going to be capable of doing higher math or engineering or much beyond basic literacy. But he cannot force himself to consider a gap beyond "individual differences," and we'll never be able to realistically adopt a model that accepts that some kids, by virtue of "individual differences," are just not college material, and also that by sheer unhappy coincidence most of those kids are non-white.

On the other hand, I don't see a realistic path towards acknowledging a reality - if it is reality - that not by coincidence, most non-white/Asian kids aren't cut out for higher education. So we are stuck. But Freddie seems particularly stuck. I wonder if in his heart of hearts, he doubts what he says publicly, or if he really is a true believer.

I think he's very similar on the trans issue. He can very accurately point out all the problems with trans ideology and the logical fallacies displayed by trans activists, except the central one. Maybe he really, truly believes TWAW, or maybe he just believes that the harm of denying TWAW is greater than the harm of admitting they are not.

Sigh.

What you are describing is very similar to how I'm feeling nowadays.

I guess my own personal hobby horse, and the reason I am still here (and a mod) is that I really, really value free speech, the whole post-Enlightenment American Constitutional version, the version that says yes, even Nazis and pedos and people who've made it clear they'd gulag me if they could should have it. And since the rest of the Internet (and essentially all public spaces) don't allow that anymore, here we are.

But we are approaching a zillion witches, and the views of most people here have calcified. Worse (for me personally), the conflict theorists won. They persuaded me. It's war to the knife and I need to act and prepare accordingly.

I'll probably stick around as long as the lights stay on.

My two cents:

This is all very well-written, but you're arguing at a more philosophical level, trying to convince your friend that sex is real and gender differences matter. That's all well and good for meta arguments about transness, but you're trying to persuade him not to transition his son. If he's already prepared to do this, he will probably see in your catalog of differences a lot of evolutionary psychology and socially-prescribed roles which he may consider irrelevant for a boy who "feels" that his innermost self is a girl. I don't know, maybe these arguments will sway him, but I suspect he's too close and just worried about his son's mental health, and telling him "No, really, you gotta teach this kid to be a man!" is probably the wrong approach.

I would suggest you focus on the very real dangers of transition, and the very high probability that his son is not really "trans." How does a five-year-old even decide that? Ask a five-year-old boy if he'd like to be a girl, and probably a lot of boys, after being told it's an option, would say "Yes." At age five, being a pretty girl and playing with Barbies might seem like an awesome thing to do.

You could get a similar response by asking if he'd like to be a tiger.

He has no concept of sexuality and barely any concept of gender roles. Who even put the idea in his head that he might be a girl?

Refuse to indulge him and almost certainly he will forget about being a girl in a week.

I'd read your Substack, if for no other reason than to see whether it would be the right or the left who devours you first. The left for obvious reasons, the right because you've been doing this thing for a while as an ex-lefty Blue Triber where you try to remind your fellow rightists that woke leftists are people too, with recognizably human motives, and you don't quite seem to realize that outside of places like the Motte (and only barely here), that is not a message they're trying to hear.

As for comparing groomers to the Satanic abuse panics of the 80s, it is really saying something that you've made me agree with @The_Nybbler twice in one day. You have observed that some moral panics are irrational, and that all moral panics tend to look superficially similar. That does not mean all moral panics are irrational. (Well, by definition, "panic" is irrational, but not all such panics are based on nothing.)

Now, I do personally think that "groomer" is slung around too casually, including by people who are just trying to cynically weaponize it against their ideological enemies (i.e., GLBT folks). But as I've said before, while I don't think every drag queen who wants to read books to children at a library is a groomer or a pedo, I also don't think "WTF are you up to?" is an unreasonable reaction. There is something deeply disturbing about thinking that drag is some kind of family-friendly show that should be normalized for children, and if intentional grooming isn't behind it, it sure seems to be groomer-adjacent to me.

Ditto all the trans people saying they want to be a "trans mommy" to any random kid who needs one, the very deliberate invitations to chats and Discord servers where they can talk about things they won't share with their parents - like, even if most of those people have good intentions, how is it not obvious that this is creepy and would code as predatory in any other context?

None of this wariness (I will say, instead of "moral panic") requires some Victorian notion of the pure and sexless innocence of children.

You were warned the last time you engaged in literal Chinese cardiology that you are allowed to develop weird theses, but it can't just be cherry-picked examples of why your target group is bad.

Do we realy have to litigate this one?

Yes, if you are going to offer anecdotal observations as "evidence" that the Chinese are lizard people, you have to actually justify your just-so stories.

This kind of manifesto-posting is not desirable. Lots of people come here with very particular ideas about certain racial and ethnic groups, and as you are no doubt aware, we don't prohibit that, but you actually have to make a well-founded argument, not just "Look at how obviously alien and inhuman these people are." We have rules against weakmanning, and rules about writing like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

Just to take an obvious example, we have several posters with very obvious antipathy for Jews. Yet when they go off on their favorite topic, they usually manage to post in such a way that there is at least something to engage with, it's not just "Jews bad." Complaining about Holocaust memorials or the amount of dollars that go into funding Jewish NGOs might be a veneer over their real agenda, but it's a veneer that allows even Jewish posters to argue at the object level.

What you offer a hypothetical Chinese poster to engage with is "true or false, you are an alien bugman of a hostile alien species."

Since you were already explicitly warned to stop posting like this, banned for three days. If you want to come back and keep riding this hobby horse, you will need to seriously up your game.

actually was thinking about giving this topic a rest - it makes me feel like I'm being radicalized in slow motion

Indeed. I know I have gone on about Rowling before, but this is the thing that threatens to radicalize me, because I feel like I'm surrounded by crazy people, who keep mindlessly repeating assertions like "JK Rowling is transphobic," "JK Rowling wants trans people to die," "JK Rowling is a literal fascist," "JK Rowling wrote an entire book about a trans serial killer" - things that are just flatly untrue. And if you clear your throat and say "Well, actually" - you will probably have to write off those relationships.

Sometimes I feel optimistic that Twitter is not reflective of real life and I am hoping in 20 years we'll look back on the era of letting children be sterilized and mutilated with horror, but that will still be a pretty grim vindication.

I think men and women are different. I do not think we are aliens to one another, incapable of deciphering how those strange opposite-sex brains work. That you don't personally value the status signified by a handbag doesn't mean you aren't capable of understanding why a name-brand purse is a status signifier. A woman is perfectly capable of understanding why you collect Steam games and don't play them. She might think it's stupid, just like you think caring about a purse is stupid, but these are not strange alien behaviors, they're just male/female-focused behaviors. The women who affect mystification at the fact that men are turned off that they have an OnlyFans are either in denial, or have genuinely lived in a cultural bubble where, essentially, the men in their lives are lying to them because it's not politic to admit "Yeah, I don't actually want to date a camwhore even if I say it's perfectly legitimate work." Men too fall prey to these fallacies from living in a bubble and then being unable to grasp that sometimes what people in their social circles claim to believe is not actually how most people feel.

You might as well argue that no one is truly capable of understanding a person from another culture. (Maybe you do believe that too, I don't know.)

You've accumulated a lot of reports on this post, and it annoys me that I had to read through this wall of text to parse out the arguments you are making.

Essentially all you've posted is a tribalistic screed. Making an argument that boils down to "My enemies are evil" is just culture warring. You hit all the old classics - Jews, MLK, Herbert Marcuse - but here and in the comments below you basically poison-pill the discussion because anyone who questions your priors or your definitions is just part of "woke."

This is a bad post that barely makes a coherent argument. There are ways to write essays about how evil your enemies are that actually make arguable points and present things to discuss. This is just fist-pounding.

I'm going to refer to this post in the future when people say "All you have to do to not get modded on the Motte is be verbose." This is an example of a very long, verbose, arguably even "effortful" post that is still crappy and low value.

I'm a little bit surprised that Ilhan Omar came to Marbach's defense.

Optimistically, I'd like to think she actually believes that stuff about freedom of religion.

Cynically, I suspect she is just anticipating a fight over what her religion believes about LGBT folks.

Even more cynically, I wonder if she just saw an opportunity to slag a Republican Jew.

But I am often surprised that people are surprised that yes, orthodox Christians do in fact believe you (yes, you) are going to go to hell if you do not accept Jesus Christ. Yes, that means they literally believe every last atheist and Muslim and Jew and pagan and Hindu and Buddhist is going to burn in hell forever. (And a lot of the Protestant denominations include Catholics, Mormons, and JWs in that bucket.)

It's almost as amusing as watching liberals in Virginia discover recently that mainstream Muslims are mostly not, in fact, "queer-friendly."

I've gotten flack for making the argument that if pro-lifers really believed abortion is murdering babies, they'd actually act like babies are being murdered. But unlike you, I actually believe pro-lifers do, in the abstract, believe abortion is morally wrong. Which is why I find your argument kind of silly. It's also commonly presented even more strongly by HBDers: "Do you really want those people breeding more?" That's a good argument if you believe the progressive framing that pro-lifers don't actually care about babies at all and banning abortion is purely a way to punish women/own the libs. But if they really do believe abortion is wrong, then of course it's wrong even if it means more of "those people" are breeding, and arguing that they should be in favor because the kind of women who have abortions are mostly the kind of women you want to have abortions is missing the point.

It's so over-the-top obviously fake that I actually give it a 10% chance it's an actual troll who sent her that, and whether she believes it's for real or not, obviously she's going to run with it.

But yeah, 90% chance it's her or someone she put up to this. "Yoruba" is a tell - actual white nationalists don't care if you're Yoruba or Igbo or Tsutsi or whatever. Nor would they switch between "Shola" and the more formal "Adeshola." The syntax is characteristic of African English speakers.

Interestingly, India Willoughby (a trans woman whose main occupation seems to be jousting with JK Rowling on Twitter) claims to have also received one. What a coincidence, two leftist Twitter grifters both get threatening letters spelling out in explicit detail that Very Bad People want to kill them because they are black and trans, respectively.

Okay, look, posting blocks of text in non-English without any explanation or translation may not be against the rules per se, but it definitely falls under the category of "Not speaking plainly." Making us go to Google Translate to make sure you aren't engaged in fedposting or other shenanigans is not okay.

Unfortunately the OP deleted his comment. But I think what you say is largely true. Especially about the course that almost every other forum takes- I've seen it on RPG and boardgame forums, on fan fiction forums, on writing and literary forums, even (to a lesser degree) on tech forums. Some of the places I hang out at which are ostensibly "apolitical" have threads explicitly about "How can we support Biden in the election?" You can imagine what would happen if someone started a thread about how to support Trump.

I am "left-aligned" but this place feels like one of the few places left on the Internet where I'm still a liberal. Anywhere else, if I express my actual (classically liberal, or as the choads on those forums would mockingly say, "cLASSiCly LIbErAl!!!") views, I am immediately tagged as a right-winger. This used to make me say "Wtf?" but now I just accept that I am politically homeless and will be the first up against the wall.

(But really, it just enrages me, when I can still muster such feelings, that believing in colorblind meritocracy, free speech, presumption of innocence, biological reality, "my rules, applied fairly," etc., is now coded as "right-wing.")