Force should be applied along a continuum until compliance (or 'persuasion' if you prefer!) is achieved. We can start with explicit Dead 45 comments made after July 13th. If nobody's feeling interested in setting down bipartisan protections after that, then the ratcheting should continue until it is desirable. And if that day never comes, then seeking complete dominance gets put on the table. Everybody here is familiar with the "your rules/my rules/fairly" orders of preference, and I'm trying to be clear about mine. Concerns regarding how successful this can be are valid, but don't dissuade me from thinking its worth attempting. "You can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs" is also a villain line in movies, but it has been more true through history than not if we're honest.
Previous intra-left cancelations have had more to do with failing to meet purity standards or not being up to speed with the most current lingo of the day. I think what's different after the Trump shooting is that they are now being visited by something outside of their wheelhouse, and it is making some of them crap themselves. Nobody in Dem-ville had to worry about lazily wishing for Trump to be assassinated (couched in cutesy Harry Potter metaphors, or trans-themed guillotine memes from the 'Love is Love' Facebook group) up until last week. My read isn't that Gass and HD lady are being punished because their peers or employers are truly offended by them, but because they are are afraid of what may be coming if they don't start heading this off now - especially since it looks like we will be getting an energized Trump admin with a popular mandate pretty soon. That fear should be exploited to get concessions or at least a table-meet.
You're right that some of this has already been churning in social media, but I think it's really only been on Twitter, and that is a direct result of one man being in the right place at the right time. Reddit got worse with each passing year, and only now may be internally wondering what their path beyond 2024 should be. It's incumbent upon conservatives to start flooding this space with their own heuristics and impacting the Overton window now, and that unfortunately is going to involve street scraps and some old ladies getting knocked over. I guess we could hold fire and wait on some high-minded technocratic solutions from Musk and his peers to shake out from top-down. Or he could be bankrupted or assasinated by next week, get replaced by somebody who's happy to revert to status quo circa 2020, and the opportunity to build some momentum on a grass-roots level will have been completely whiffed on.
I'm not sure it's insufficient. Rolling over and playing nice certainly would be. Time will tell.
I stated my justifications and where I hope they end up, and you seem to think I actually don't believe them. Despite me having just written them out for you. Fine.
Sure. I guess. In the same way that a schizo may 'support' stabbing his roommate because they're trying to steal his precious bodily fluids or put chips in his brain. Makes sense from his individual perspective. Of course, this perspective has consequences meted out by other parties (disconnection, imprisonment, execution).
They should support his murder based on their premises. I have my own premises as well, and some disorganized thoughts on what should be done to them in turn.
DTulpa
15d ago
I definitely know a few hard leftists/socialists who were quick to go cold on him as well. But in general Dem normie-sphere, he was a gold standard POTUS who reigned without controversy, and his photos were posted wistfully in the Age of Trump.
I sense that too has been fading, though. Although I think that's more due to aging out of relevancy than a reappraisal of the man and his admin.
You could say they're not the real Left, but they're the one that matters.
And as a big Obama supporter for both his terms... yeah, there was a 'culty' (generously described as enamored) vibe going on. Even the Daily Show poked fun at this, with John Oliver even going to the DNC in 08 and getting little more than 'Obama will fix everything' from the crowd attendees.
Two straight men can play 'gay chicken', even while being fully aware of each others hetero credentials. It's still called 'gay chicken' for a reason.
That's the lab environment. Most straight men have little patience for 'gay behavior' sprung on them in the wild, even from a friend. I feel quite sure this is something innate albeit socially mediated depending on culture and/or subculture.
DTulpa
10mo ago
It was just too fucking perfect that it was preceded by another kind of Real ID controversy. Gaming is nothing if not ahead of the curve!
I've seen that incident noted out in the wild a few times, and so I'm guessing there's an effort to make it the signature image of this fiasco.
We'll see if that sticks. I was rather nonplussed by the video given what 'trampled by horses' conjures in my mind. I see a miscreant whose actions finally met their consequences in the middle of a firework-exploding fracas, and he is actually OK by the end of it.
I'm obviously based, but I think the currency of 'poor innocent protester hurt by fascists for literally no reason' is losing value.
Nobody would need to do labia inspections because every woman in that shower would already know what this person's sex is - and they would know because even with the absence of a penis and testicles, the trans individual is still not 'passing'. The womens' subconscious is still tagging them as 'transwoman' or 'man'.
I've only ever seen 'passing' used in the sense of 'unable to notice the difference'. Dylan Mulvaney doesn't pass, even if we limit our focus to their top half and not even bother with genitals. Now, if you put him on a magazine cover, apply makeup, get the angles right, and have a professional photoshoot, then in that small instance they may pass. It will produce a still image that activists will smugly forward to your attention while saying "ppl saying Dylan doesnt pass should take another look" or "she looks more feminine than 90% of the women I know fr fr". Since I have to admit that yeah, they do look like an actual woman, I get tasty egg all over my face.
And then I say "Very interesting! Big pass! Now take their clothes off and see how well this illusion holds up. Actually, just put them in a real-world interaction where you could watch them move and listen to them talk. You will pick up on how non-passing they are well before anybody needs to take their pants off. Because this trick only works with a static JPG and a truckload of cosmetics that will wash off in the shower."
Many people seem to believe that transwomens' looks are largely indistinguishable from those of unattractive or 'unfortunate'-looking women, especially when the eyeliner, lip gloss, and powder are removed. But this has not been my experience - I can distinguish between ugly or odd women from the men dressing up and/or acting like a woman. I have a strong intuition that my subconscious is playing a role in noticing the differences, and it won't be fooled. My subconscious categorization of transwomen is still 'men', and I think the biological women in the shower have the same software as I.
I'm still an atheist! It would pretty much take an 'act of God' to make me a believer. I can't grok the metaphysics any religion, and I'm too set in my mental pathways to larp it without feeling fraudulent.
But I do wonder how many good heuristics I disregarded because of my aversion to faith. I don't mean to imply that Christians had it all right and I had it all wrong. Just that there was some wisdom in those practices (whether they were truly understood or merely passed on and reflexively followed by the faithful) I had probably overlooked because flipping the bird at the bible like Marilyn Manson seemed so obviously the right thing to do in our Era of Enlightenment.
Somebody like Sam Harris (who I was a big fan of!) would argue that we need to find secular pathways to reach the same 'good stuff' religion offers without the superstitions. I think I still agree with this in theory. But that movement has come up rather empty. I'm not even sure it's possible. If faith is the second best and only real option, I have to consider if my trashing of it was shortsighted. Even if I can't partake in it, it may be best if most people do.
DTulpa
9mo ago
And yet my experience with old people is that they fight tooth and nail not to be dropped at a home, and the ones there lament not being able to stay at their real homes or with family.
Preferable to dying in a street, but not what I'd call 'utopian'.
DTulpa
11mo ago
I think this is completely fair. But then my takeaway is that more attention and effort should have been paid to the border itself and its enforcement. I get the image of the admin plugging their fingers in the holes of a dam while it collapses on the sides, and whatever good work she performed is undecut by a strategic failure to keep an eye on the ball - or to even ackowledge the ball at all.
I said I wasn't getting people fired. I can still report hateful snots and find I'm getting a lot more traction than I did a few years ago. I am checking back in with people who peacocked the fact that they made whole wretched subreddits dedicated to 45 being dead just several weeks ago now squirm and go bipolar since they've gone under the microscope. And I am finding that a few of my Dem friends may have been caging their frustrations in the same way I used to, while the rest have conspicuously piped down their vitriol to their benefit and mine.
You say 'petty'. I say 'doesnt require that much effort'. Because the beauty of this is that you don't need to go hard when your opponent has so utterly beclowned themselves in this manner. When I say I am not looking for symmetry, that means I am not looking to cancel people for being pro-trans, pro-immigration, or holding any other stereotypical lefty belief. I am fine with profiling solely for people who publicly wish death on Trump and his supporters - who have decided this is leftist territory worth defending - and collaring every single one of them within arm's reach where possible, big and small. Just because I don't have the stomach or patience for this work doesn't mean I don't recognize the utility.
And if this can be accomplished by spooking them into doing this to themselves, all the better. That's decent power projection IMO. I think it's actually great that Kyle Gass is getting sanctioned by his own people instead of his opponents. That's some self-awareness starting to show. If they start to doubt the existence of an actual threat - well, Billionaire Tyrant Elon Musk has shown he's happy to make your life harder if he can half-cleverly justify it even if it breaks his touted his 'maximum free speech' line. The future cultural terrain is looking more and more up for grabs to me than it did in January. If nobody wants to wise up, we could very well make support for increasingly-discredited 'gender-affirming care' worthy of bans and demonetization by some time next year if trends continue.
You want me to talk about 'changing the law'? Okay, sure. "Social media posts cannot be considered as grounds for termination, and companies found doing this will be prosecuted to the full extent possible". While simple and broad, that seems like a good enough starting point for me, is actually close to my heart, and one I can be pragmatic about in regards to exceptions. And I'm just positive this is so widely uncontroversial and easy enough to coordinate consensus on that all I need to do is send an email to Mark Zuckerburg and ask him to lobby on behalf of this beautiful, pure ideal! Now that this wonderfully useful exercise has taken place, what's next, Hoss?
You want a change in law, make at least some people want it. This implied demand that I need to set forth a charter or a ten-point plan on 'How I Would Fix Free Speech On The Internet' is pointless when that opportunity is neither here nor there at this time. Especially when I am actually already telling you this a minimum Step One for such a process.
DTulpa
11mo ago
I saw a lot of comments ranging from the boring "ugh, Trump needlessly showboating again" to "He's making the SS' jobs difficult" and finally to "that he was even allowed to do that means this was staged".
Ignoring the third one since you would have to be insane to keep up that line today, I'll have to admit that they may not even be wrong on the first two. In the fog of it, Trump was exposing himself to further danger for the sake of a visual display. And he was indeed holding up his protection while they did their thing. But in the end, it was absolutely worth it and the correct move to make.
The image is awesome, and I think most Dems are honest enough to admit that. They're just reluctant to give it any credit.
DTulpa
11mo ago
Oh yeah. I remember the needle bins in the public parks, and the permissive attitudes regarding the use sites. And yet, somehow I never encountered somebody shitting in the streets, passed out on a bench, or going schizo at a random passer-by. The mentality seemed to be "Fine, you can do those things. The moment this starts getting ugly or impinge on anybody else, you will get hauled off. Keep it invisible." I saw more social dysfunction from imported Turks and Albanians than from the junkies.
Not sure how well this model has survived. My experience was about 20 years ago. But I had the sense that this only possible as a result of 'Swiss Culture', if that's not too vague. Being a smaller country also helps. It seemed to work well enough for them, but if anybody pitched the idea needle bins in the nearby parks around me here in the US, I'd tell them they're crazy.
DTulpa
2d ago
+1 for Antz superiority, and fond memories of my father helpfully pointing out to me that Gene Hackman's character was a Nazi.
DTulpa
4mo ago
Leaving aside that I think "equality between men and women" is a fairly empty balloon with a lot of details to be filled in - you must appreciate that the kind of feminism promoted in the meanstream are the materials we have to work with.
I respect your position on an interpersonal basis. But it doesn't really mean much outside of that. I think my disposition is still fairly liberal in the 90s/00s sense of the term. And I can fully see the argument that 'liberalism' today is far more authoritarian and fails to live up to its own namesake. But at a certain point, I am wasting everybody's time if I insist that wokescolds aren't 'liberal'.
Maybe that could change, and it will fold back on itself and meet me where I planted my feet a decade ago. I will have reclaimed 'liberalism'. But in the meantime, I'm not going to fight how the term is used in most conversations. I might put down an asterisk, but the conversation must proceed.
DTulpa
5mo ago
DTulpa
8mo ago
Mine was a unicorn shitting glitter or something.
I really, really hate it.
DTulpa
8mo ago
His recent episode with the Triggernometry guys had discussion on it. He thinks it was ill-advised for a political event, but... eh, predictable consensus is that this is nothing.
DTulpa
10mo ago
To be fair, I do think this particular problem starts with the prequel trilogy. The order of Jedi Knights worked best as background mythology. Before the days of Jar Jar and Young Anakin, they were hazy and a bit nondescript. I think that worked perfectly for the kind of mythic tale the OT was trying to weave. Going back and filling in details did some irreversible damage to the universe's structural integrity, but it was at least offset by the spice of variety: new aliens, new planets, new factions, etc. The playground widened up enough where I think many fans could ignore the mess Lucas made with the core story and play with the toys of their own choosing.
Nu Star Wars instead often seems like its doubling down on the parts few people liked to begin with while offering little else in compensation.
DTulpa
11mo ago
If you want to make a case for his favorability ratings versus Vance, I won't argue with it. I would contest that this anything to do with him being a 'turbo normie', which you claim as seemingly self-evident.
The patriots waving the Mexico flags?
Best of luck to them.
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