Devonshire
1yr ago
I think "free speech absolutists" are noticeably different from "right-wing posters," even if they feel some common ground these days.
Devonshire
1yr ago
Literal terrorists get legal representation.
In a recent thread about illegal immigration, I got super-pissed at the idea that we should hold the illegal immigrants' lawyers responsible for their behavior. Because it is a direct strike at the heart of liberalism. Yeah, yeah, going after the other side's lawyers is effective. Obviously. Because without legal representation you are SOL.
Same thing here. If the redcoats who did the Boston Massacre get lawyers, so does a guy running a website.
Devonshire
1yr ago
Half of Broward County’s election precincts reported more ballots cast than the number of voters.
I stopped reading here because I had to look this up.
This is not "there are 4000 voters in this county, but 4100 ballots were cast."
This is "212 people were logged as submitting a vote at this voting center, but 213 ballots were in the machines."
So someone goofed up, or someone stuffed a ballot. This is distributed across 293 precincts, with a total of 885 extra ballots.
'strangely,' Broward and Palm Beach County had no discrepancies or delays in the 2020 election
It sounds like Florida fixed the problems. Which is what is supposed to happen when an auditor shows problems! That is not "strange" at all!
The systems to keep the books aligned have gotten much better. The election I observed in Florida (very boring!) had numbers on each ballot so if one just "showed up" it would be recognized. Was it someone playing games or was it normal human error? Good question. The new system stops both accidentals and purposeful unaccounted ballots, so either way I am happy it is in place.
Oh, and lets not forget that Rick Scott very directly claimed the election was being stolen. He and Stacey Abrams were two years ahead of Trump on applying this tactic.
This is important to remember.
If there were a consistent rule on what "doxxing" meant I might agree. (Even edit, my typo some of the KF defenders weasel about the definition.)
Yesterday I thought of "posting the address enough where a pizza delivery guy can find it" is the limit. I just had the idea that it was specific enough that a third-party could find your doorstep it's too much. It was entirely coincidental that this is old-school way of harassing people.
But sometimes the "doxxing" is "here is this person's criminal record." We absolutely need some place on the internet we can discuss that.
Devonshire
1yr ago
Poland does not like taking in economic refugees, and the fact that they are taking in Ukrainian refugees so readily is a measure of how much they dislike the entire concept of "Russia invades someone."
Devonshire
1yr ago
My model was not Afghanistan. It was Crimea. Russia would roll over it, the West would be Really Mad, but then shrug because what can you do?
Devonshire
1yr ago
This is very common experience at elite colleges and I should have added it. The kids blasted through the high school work simply through having a 130 IQ, and once put in a classroom that expects 130 IQ + hard work + study skills they get a gut punch.
Devonshire
1yr ago
Sharing health info somehow threatens national security.
When you are an officer in the military? Fuck yes it does.
Soldiers are going to fight to the death at the order of the military. Those soldiers give you critical information necessarily for their survival. And if you somehow decide that this information should be used for your own personal aggrandizement, that is bullet-in-the-head bad.
It is mercy that this person is only facing imprisonment.
Devonshire
1yr ago
In theory Net Neutrality would have required other network companies to peer with Kiwi Farms, although in practice I suspect some exception would be found. (Josh has not yet been un-peered, while his opponents rely on DDoS attacks, but I no longer have confidence in rubicons remaining uncrossed.)
Devonshire
1yr ago
Should KF have been allowed to report on the criminal records of reddit powermods?
I want to know what the line is on doxxing, because right now, whoever says it, it seems to be "someone on your side posted true information about someone on my side that they did not want publicized."
Maybe the definition is literally posting a home address. That is one that works and would still allow for posting the criminal records of trans people.
Devonshire
1yr ago
I would like to make a standing offer to anyone reading this, that I will coach you through fixing any "political lean" problem of the sort you're alluding to.
How long do you think it is going to take? How many rounds of edits? If they keep on holding me off for a month and I get tired, do you win?
What if the source got cito-genesised?
One thing I would like fixed is their article about Kiwi Farms. The article has this:
Julie Terryberry, a Canadian woman, died by suicide in 2016 following sustained harassment from Kiwi Farms users.[10][11][13]
Follow those three citations.
[10]: Gizmodo article. The full sum of their Terryberry coverage is this:
In 2016, a Canadian woman, Julie Terryberry, ended her life after being targeted by the site.
"ended her life" is a hyperlink to some rando's Wordpress site, which doxxes Josh's mother, and has this:
Kiwi Farms had about 200 webpages bullying a teenaged girl named Julie Terryberry and she committed suicide.
That is it. That is the entire chain of [10].
[11] is in Fucking French.
[13] is to Business Insider, and just links to [10] and [11]. BECAUSE THEY JUST SOURCED IT FROM WIKIPEDIA.
Those are their own sources. But even if I tried fixing them now and we got Business Insider kicked out as trash, this "fact" from the Wikipedia article has been cite-washed through the Washington Post https://archive.ph/ExKi4 "At least three suicides have been tied to harassment stemming from the Kiwi Farms community." Will you help stop that article from being cited?
Devonshire
1yr ago
all of the 'surplus' available to them,
Surplus is an established economic concept, not something for scare quotes.
Otherwise, why do you value such items more than a near-identical one you could just buy on the market?
I do not fucking want to wake up and find my kitchen table replaced with $400 in cash even though that is what it is "worth" in some market sense. I would probably pay more much than $400 to have a table but anyone trying to find my price point is my blood enemy. That is valuable information. Mail me an offer if you want it. Tell me how much it is worth to you.
People have things to do with their day besides deal with transaction bots.
Devonshire
1yr ago
that's giving into the leviathan, never flinch, it's what they want".
It is easy to be brave with someone else's website.
I see this a lot with the anti-woke subreddits that are still there. The mods will announce their work to stay in line with the rules, and some user who logs in once a week to get their rage fix will say "you cowards, better to die on your feet than live on your knees" and then log out for another week.
The reddit rules suck and are stupid, but the people who built the thing are the ones to make that call.
Josh is not "all free speech all the time." If there were a specific rule to follow he would likely do it. But there are no rules. A mob has no rules.
Devonshire
1yr ago
Devonshire
1yr ago
I just did some corporate training about data retention, and only retaining what is absolutely necessary. Nearly every time you throw out or never collect data that is irrelevant. But one point that jumped out at me is that "throw away the data about race in our AI model" is the wrong answer as far as HR policies are concerned.
I want them to admit that despite having way more than enough wealth to handle 50 people, they don't want to,
The mainstream news coverage I saw, and the mainstream reddit posts I saw, said that MV was loving this and happily making room for them. EDIT I see that MV has since put them on buses and shipped them away at gunpoint.
I have known about this campaign to bus the illegals to the sanctuary cities for a long time, but my wife just learned about a few days ago with the MV story. She wanted me to be angry and I knew not to fall into the trap so I just said "it sounds like win-win-win: the immigrants volunteered to be put there, the receiving community says they want them, the 'donor' community says they cannot handle that many refugees."
Devonshire
1yr ago
Scott's reward for interacting with this guy is that this guy will now not leave him alone.
This is the most likely explanation.
Both sides of a pipeline want it operating, by definition, or else it would not be operating.
More complex "teaching the other side a lesson about the pipeline possibly closing off" explanations require big assumptions on who exactly is supposed to be learning what, since again both sides want it operating.
My gut instinct is a non-state-actor LARPING or thinking "I AM HELPING."
Devonshire
1yr ago
While what's wrong with kathryn gibes or chris-chan is related to what's wrong with 'the left' in some senses i guess,
For all the weird stuff that KF has done, what actually got them taken offline was posting true information about trans people.
KF did a lot besides that, but this is what I call "steelman Kiwi Farms." That is the site that deserves to exist but cannot.
Devonshire
1yr ago
If we actually go with this definition, then most of the Internet is going to die. The New York Times needs to be deleted for posting Scott's PII.
Devonshire
1yr ago
Sometimes I can watch Scarlett Johannsenn beat up men and it works, because she takes them by surprise or fights smarter than them.
But often she just punches them out and I am just jarred out of the experience. "Why can she do this? Did I miss her getting super-powers?" I stop watching the movie and get lost in my thoughts.
Daredevil's hallway scene is really good for many reasons, but I just want to focus on the obvious fight. You have a guy who has no physical powers like strength or speed or agility. He does have super-senses, and he has to use them because any straight-on fight is too likely to end up with him injured. He keeps an advantage but the tension is still high because if he loses that advantage at all he stands a good chance of dying.
These days it is just assumed he can take on a couple henchmen goons at once without a problem.
This is bad, but it is not woke.
Devonshire
1yr ago
Sure, they could have done it.
CloudFlare could have said "you can stay on our service as long as you do not post a home address." That is a rule that could have been followed! It is easily understood and enforced! If you read what he writes, Josh really did want to keep the forum online.
(Josh would upfront ask service providers what was and was not allowed, and no specific lines were ever given. Just vague handwaving at the ToS. Like reddit admins refusing to give answers on what we could have done to avoid AEO attention.)
If we can agree on the rule of "doxxing is posting the home address and if you do that you get kicked off the internet, but if you do not do that (or otherwise cross the grounds of criminality that get the police involved) you stay on the internet" that is great.
Now we need to get most other people to agree to it.
Do you think we can get people on board with our rule? Keep in mind that with this rule in place, someone could set up the successor to KF that posts all the same soft of things, short of someone's home address, and people could not take it down.
EDIT I will also say phone number should be considered dox, based on your comment in the other thread.
Devonshire
1yr ago
"You can fix things yourself as long as the other side does not notice and put up a fight" is kind of what my starting position was.
Devonshire
1yr ago
But the NYT continues to make the mistake to this day. Has their hosting provider terminated them until they delete the article?
And posting PII is pretty easy to do. NYT reports the names and cities of people every day. That is PII. Did they check on each one to make sure it is okay?
"Yeah but that information was already public" you will say, sensibly, but that is the typical KF response. In many cases they are just doing open-source reporting and find the account said their real name in public at some point. (This does not cover every thread. Some people there have access to PI databases, I think.)
If a real-life terrorist is captured and put in jail, even if he is the devil on earth, someone at some point should be able to name the crime he is in jail for, and not say "well if not this rule then probably some other one, who cares."
This is the problem with "you cannot post PII." I have suggested the rule being that you cannot publish the street address with enough specificity that a rando could walk up to their door. And I think that is a pretty objective and legible rule! (A lot of person-lookup websites violate the rule right now, but maybe that is not a big loss.)
But when I suggest that rule to people who want KF off the internet, they never seem happy to accept it. Perhaps because they want the rules vague.
they could opt not to cross and they'd have a lot more friends.
Sure. I do not expect any of the many people who have had threads made about them on KF to spend a single second carrying water for them.
As much as I am annoyed by the Democrats saying "there is no almost no fraud in the places it is easiest to look and someone would have to have shit for brains to try to commit fraud", it is the same annoyance when Republicans forget their own commissions set up to exactly find fraud and then do not find any.
It is like there is no room for nuance at all and it is all signalling.
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