Devonshire
1yr ago
Poland does not like taking in economic refugees, and the fact that they are taking in Ukrainian refugees so readily is a measure of how much they dislike the entire concept of "Russia invades someone."
If there were a consistent rule on what "doxxing" meant I might agree. (Even edit, my typo some of the KF defenders weasel about the definition.)
Yesterday I thought of "posting the address enough where a pizza delivery guy can find it" is the limit. I just had the idea that it was specific enough that a third-party could find your doorstep it's too much. It was entirely coincidental that this is old-school way of harassing people.
But sometimes the "doxxing" is "here is this person's criminal record." We absolutely need some place on the internet we can discuss that.
Devonshire
1yr ago
My model was not Afghanistan. It was Crimea. Russia would roll over it, the West would be Really Mad, but then shrug because what can you do?
I thought literally everyone at the time said that the purpose was to reduce severity in most patients
The scientists said that they were only testing for proving making individuals less likely to die, which they were very good at in the pre-Omicron days.
A bunch of other people, particularly in the media, showed up and said "well, that must mean it reduces transmission, right?" and then said "it obviously reduces transmission" even though the scientists said they never tested proved that.
This is some alternate kind of motte-and-bailey, where the useful idiots say wrong things that you can claim credit for in case they turn out to be right, but disavow if they are wrong.
Devonshire
1yr ago
This is very common experience at elite colleges and I should have added it. The kids blasted through the high school work simply through having a 130 IQ, and once put in a classroom that expects 130 IQ + hard work + study skills they get a gut punch.
Devonshire
1yr ago
Sharing health info somehow threatens national security.
When you are an officer in the military? Fuck yes it does.
Soldiers are going to fight to the death at the order of the military. Those soldiers give you critical information necessarily for their survival. And if you somehow decide that this information should be used for your own personal aggrandizement, that is bullet-in-the-head bad.
It is mercy that this person is only facing imprisonment.
Devonshire
1yr ago
Should KF have been allowed to report on the criminal records of reddit powermods?
I want to know what the line is on doxxing, because right now, whoever says it, it seems to be "someone on your side posted true information about someone on my side that they did not want publicized."
Maybe the definition is literally posting a home address. That is one that works and would still allow for posting the criminal records of trans people.
Devonshire
1yr ago
I would like to make a standing offer to anyone reading this, that I will coach you through fixing any "political lean" problem of the sort you're alluding to.
How long do you think it is going to take? How many rounds of edits? If they keep on holding me off for a month and I get tired, do you win?
What if the source got cito-genesised?
One thing I would like fixed is their article about Kiwi Farms. The article has this:
Julie Terryberry, a Canadian woman, died by suicide in 2016 following sustained harassment from Kiwi Farms users.[10][11][13]
Follow those three citations.
[10]: Gizmodo article. The full sum of their Terryberry coverage is this:
In 2016, a Canadian woman, Julie Terryberry, ended her life after being targeted by the site.
"ended her life" is a hyperlink to some rando's Wordpress site, which doxxes Josh's mother, and has this:
Kiwi Farms had about 200 webpages bullying a teenaged girl named Julie Terryberry and she committed suicide.
That is it. That is the entire chain of [10].
[11] is in Fucking French.
[13] is to Business Insider, and just links to [10] and [11]. BECAUSE THEY JUST SOURCED IT FROM WIKIPEDIA.
Those are their own sources. But even if I tried fixing them now and we got Business Insider kicked out as trash, this "fact" from the Wikipedia article has been cite-washed through the Washington Post https://archive.ph/ExKi4 "At least three suicides have been tied to harassment stemming from the Kiwi Farms community." Will you help stop that article from being cited?
Devonshire
1yr ago
all of the 'surplus' available to them,
Surplus is an established economic concept, not something for scare quotes.
Otherwise, why do you value such items more than a near-identical one you could just buy on the market?
I do not fucking want to wake up and find my kitchen table replaced with $400 in cash even though that is what it is "worth" in some market sense. I would probably pay more much than $400 to have a table but anyone trying to find my price point is my blood enemy. That is valuable information. Mail me an offer if you want it. Tell me how much it is worth to you.
People have things to do with their day besides deal with transaction bots.
Devonshire
1yr ago
In theory Net Neutrality would have required other network companies to peer with Kiwi Farms, although in practice I suspect some exception would be found. (Josh has not yet been un-peered, while his opponents rely on DDoS attacks, but I no longer have confidence in rubicons remaining uncrossed.)
Devonshire
1yr ago
Devonshire
1yr ago
I just did some corporate training about data retention, and only retaining what is absolutely necessary. Nearly every time you throw out or never collect data that is irrelevant. But one point that jumped out at me is that "throw away the data about race in our AI model" is the wrong answer as far as HR policies are concerned.
Devonshire
1yr ago
that's giving into the leviathan, never flinch, it's what they want".
It is easy to be brave with someone else's website.
I see this a lot with the anti-woke subreddits that are still there. The mods will announce their work to stay in line with the rules, and some user who logs in once a week to get their rage fix will say "you cowards, better to die on your feet than live on your knees" and then log out for another week.
The reddit rules suck and are stupid, but the people who built the thing are the ones to make that call.
Josh is not "all free speech all the time." If there were a specific rule to follow he would likely do it. But there are no rules. A mob has no rules.
Devonshire
1yr ago
Sometimes I can watch Scarlett Johannsenn beat up men and it works, because she takes them by surprise or fights smarter than them.
But often she just punches them out and I am just jarred out of the experience. "Why can she do this? Did I miss her getting super-powers?" I stop watching the movie and get lost in my thoughts.
Daredevil's hallway scene is really good for many reasons, but I just want to focus on the obvious fight. You have a guy who has no physical powers like strength or speed or agility. He does have super-senses, and he has to use them because any straight-on fight is too likely to end up with him injured. He keeps an advantage but the tension is still high because if he loses that advantage at all he stands a good chance of dying.
These days it is just assumed he can take on a couple henchmen goons at once without a problem.
This is bad, but it is not woke.
Devonshire
1yr ago
Sure, they could have done it.
CloudFlare could have said "you can stay on our service as long as you do not post a home address." That is a rule that could have been followed! It is easily understood and enforced! If you read what he writes, Josh really did want to keep the forum online.
(Josh would upfront ask service providers what was and was not allowed, and no specific lines were ever given. Just vague handwaving at the ToS. Like reddit admins refusing to give answers on what we could have done to avoid AEO attention.)
If we can agree on the rule of "doxxing is posting the home address and if you do that you get kicked off the internet, but if you do not do that (or otherwise cross the grounds of criminality that get the police involved) you stay on the internet" that is great.
Now we need to get most other people to agree to it.
Do you think we can get people on board with our rule? Keep in mind that with this rule in place, someone could set up the successor to KF that posts all the same soft of things, short of someone's home address, and people could not take it down.
EDIT I will also say phone number should be considered dox, based on your comment in the other thread.
Devonshire
1yr ago
While what's wrong with kathryn gibes or chris-chan is related to what's wrong with 'the left' in some senses i guess,
For all the weird stuff that KF has done, what actually got them taken offline was posting true information about trans people.
KF did a lot besides that, but this is what I call "steelman Kiwi Farms." That is the site that deserves to exist but cannot.
Devonshire
1yr ago
"You can fix things yourself as long as the other side does not notice and put up a fight" is kind of what my starting position was.
Devonshire
1yr ago
If we actually go with this definition, then most of the Internet is going to die. The New York Times needs to be deleted for posting Scott's PII.
Devonshire
1yr ago
I’m really just putting this quote here as a laugh line.
It is the bureaucracy waiting until after the fact to see how people have fucked themselves up trying to figure out the rules. And saying it was obvious what the rules were, you morons, you cheats, you scoundrels.
That sounds like double-dipping and is very frightening.
EDIT How do you establish land value without private sales? This is always a big problem in pure global communism where you lose access to price signals.
This is the most likely explanation.
Both sides of a pipeline want it operating, by definition, or else it would not be operating.
More complex "teaching the other side a lesson about the pipeline possibly closing off" explanations require big assumptions on who exactly is supposed to be learning what, since again both sides want it operating.
My gut instinct is a non-state-actor LARPING or thinking "I AM HELPING."
Devonshire
1yr ago
I want to go all the way around the circle and say it was inappropriate because of the power imbalance because he could destroy her career by calling her racist.
Devonshire
1yr ago
I think Near was hoping for a narrative of "I even offered 100K and they still said it was not enough." When Josh started negotiating in earnest, Near panicked.
Devonshire
1yr ago
emailed Null and threatened to commit suicide if his 13-page thread that had been dead for months wasn't taken down
Null has taken down threads. The number one reason he does not is that the users will immediately notice and just put the information back up, and while he could of course ban the users for doing that, it just paints a big Streisand-mansion-sized target on it, completely backfiring any attempt to remove it.
Quietly delisting and then deleting a thread that has been dead for a while was likely to work and Null might have done it, especially because Near was offering a big pile of cash. But in the middle of talking Near said "fuck it I am killing myself" and then ghosted the world.
Literal terrorists get legal representation.
In a recent thread about illegal immigration, I got super-pissed at the idea that we should hold the illegal immigrants' lawyers responsible for their behavior. Because it is a direct strike at the heart of liberalism. Yeah, yeah, going after the other side's lawyers is effective. Obviously. Because without legal representation you are SOL.
Same thing here. If the redcoats who did the Boston Massacre get lawyers, so does a guy running a website.
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