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Eetan


				

				

				
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Eetan


				
				
				

				
2 followers   follows 2 users   joined 2022 September 04 22:19:45 UTC

					

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User ID: 208

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Moldgub:

You need to turn off your feelings because you are a mother bird feeding a cuckoo.

and then proceeds with the usual long and convoluted verbal diarrhea. As if Moldbug cared, as is Moldbug had some feelings about current happenings in the land of Canaan. I do not remember him commenting at length about recent events in, for example, Ethiopia, Sudan, Sahel or Myanmar, formerly Burma.

Why is Moldbug allowed to have feelings while we should stay completely calm and disinterested?

Is it because some of Moldbug's ancestors came from this place and some relatives of his do live there now? If this should be the standard, then only people with Eastern Slavic descent should be allowed to care about Ukraine. Somehow, Moldbug despite his lack of Slavic blood, is very interested in this place and writes about it at length.

Is is because Moldbug disregards his own law or is it because there is no law except "Moldbug does what Moldbug wants?"

Somewhat tangentially, I don't really understand how "eat the rich" isn't read as a really, really extreme position. Yes, I know that literally eating people is tongue in cheek and it isn't earnest advocacy of cannibalism, but the underlying sentiment really is that people that have too much money should have their wealth expropriated by force. This seems at least as ideologically extreme as the sentiments implied by 14 words styling, but one is read as being a literal Nazi and the other one is just a cute hippy slogan. It's really quite remarkable how communist-adjacent positions are inside the Overton Window.

Because people saying nazi slogans mean it, while people saying communist slogans are LARPers in clown costumes.

No one is afraid of contemporary communists, everyone, and especially the rich, knows no world worker revolution is coming, no one is going to seize means of production, no one is going to expropriate the expropriators.

The class war is over (ending on the right). Deal with it.

Time for current culture war item, reviving 20 years old controversies in much different world.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali is now a Christian

Some feel it as betrayal, some as vindication, but all see it as big thing. But is it a thing of any importance?

Reading through the manifesto, it seems strange. First, it does not contain the word "Jesus", not even once. Neither the word "salvation".

So what it talks about?

Threats to precious Western democracy, freedom, rules based international order and Judeo-Christian tradition

Part of the answer is global. Western civilisation is under threat from three different but related forces: the resurgence of great-power authoritarianism and expansionism in the forms of the Chinese Communist Party and Vladimir Putin’s Russia; the rise of global Islamism, which threatens to mobilise a vast population against the West; and the viral spread of woke ideology, which is eating into the moral fibre of the next generation.

But we can’t fight off these formidable forces unless we can answer the question: what is it that unites us? The response that “God is dead!” seems insufficient. So, too, does the attempt to find solace in “the rules-based liberal international order”. The only credible answer, I believe, lies in our desire to uphold the legacy of the Judeo-Christian tradition.

historical facts as accurate as "Cleopatra was black"

To me, this freedom of conscience and speech is perhaps the greatest benefit of Western civilisation. It does not come naturally to man. It is the product of centuries of debate within Jewish and Christian communities.

and mid-life crisis. Permanent Middle Eastern crisis is child's play compared to eternally recurring middle life crisis.

Atheism failed to answer a simple question: what is the meaning and purpose of life?

So why Christianity?

In this nihilistic vacuum, the challenge before us becomes civilisational. We can’t withstand China, Russia and Iran if we can’t explain to our populations why it matters that we do. We can’t fight woke ideology if we can’t defend the civilisation that it is determined to destroy.

How is Christianity supposed to help in fighting "China, Russia and Iran" is left unclear. Of these coutries, Russia explicitly claims to fight for Christianity against Western Jewish Nazi homosexual Satanism.

How would AHA answer Putin, how would she prove that his interpretation of Christianity is wrong and her "Judo-Christian" faith is the true Christian tradition and true message of Jesus?

And for wokeism, Christianity hadn't proved not to be very effective in fighting it.

(and if you need Christianity do defeat something so absurd as wokeism, you already lost)

SENIOR: What would you like for your birthday, son?

JUNIOR: I want to chop off my dick, dad.

SENIOR: Do not do it, son!

JUNIOR: Why?

SENIOR: (long pause and head scratching) The Bible! The Bible forbids it, son!

JUNIOR: Where?

SENIOR: (fast and frantic searching through book) Wait, son! It must be here, somewhere!

That is why I no longer consider myself a Muslim apostate, but a lapsed atheist. Of course, I still have a great deal to learn about Christianity. I discover a little more at church each Sunday. But I have recognised, in my own long journey through a wilderness of fear and self-doubt, that there is a better way to manage the challenges of existence than either Islam or unbelief had to offer.

Curious what exact church AHA joined. Churches that simultaneously reject wokeism and support "civilization war" against Axis of Evil, churches that fly Ukraine, Israeli and Taiwan flags but lack rainbow, trans and BLM flags tend to be rather thin of the ground.

I Want To Believe (in Marx's Labor Theory of Value)

Content warning: this post contains MARXISM. If seeing Marx's massive beard or even hearing his name is too traumatic for you, stop reading now.

...

Recently I found one interesting article, not interesting in itself, but how it illustrates arguments about psychological necessity of faith and belief frequently discussed here.

Yes, it is Marxist article written by professional Marxist in Marxist journal. Last chance to avert your eyes from forbidden lore is now.

...

Yes, it is very obscure, but if post about civil war in furry community can pass there, this might too.

If you are interested how I got there, the route was Anatoly Karlin -> devcroix -> journal article by distinguished academic historian -> academic journal dedicated to Marxist theory

Was Stalin a Marxist? And If He Was, What Does This Mean for Marxism?

(tl;dr: yes he was, it means lots of things for Marxism, none of them nice)

This is not the article I wanted to share.

This is the article.

Unfree Labour and Value Productivity: Challenges for the Marxian Labour Theory of Value by another academic, not distinguished enough yet to deserve his own Wiki page.

So what is it all about?

Labor theory of value(LTV), the cornerstone of Marxist thought. If LTV fails, whole Marxism crashes to the ground.

Narrator voice: it failed, it was debunked many times, starting in 1890's. Somehow, it had no effects on world historical events of 20th century.

So, what exactly is this article about?

This paper explores the question: does unfree labour produce value?

According to Big Beard Man's theory, it does not. (Practical Marxists later strongly disagreed, but this is not topic of this article)

Since the direct purpose and the actual product of capitalist production is surplus value, only such labour is productive [...] as directly produces surplus value.

But why is it? (except that Marx said so) What is the distinction between wage and slave labor, slave and animal labor, animal and machine labor?

Author examines these distinction, and finds them rather arbitrary.

No need to read 40 pages of Marxspeak(I hadn't either), this table summarizes the argument and the dilemma.

there is no theory-internal logical barrier to believing that wage labourers do produce value but unfree human labourers do not, that human slaves produce value but animal slaves do not, or that animals produce value but machines do not. All of these options lie within the space of open possibilities.

So, Marxist author in this article deboonks cornerstone of Marxist philosophy and watches the whole thing tumbling down in its own footprint like the towers on Nine Eleven.

This had been done many times before, this is not the importance of this article, the importance is in his last sentences.

At times, Marx is adamant that wage-labour is an absolute sine qua non for the creation of surplus-value, and I have a hunch that this is the view he should stick with

(long Marx quote)

But I do not know how to affirm this tenet except as an article of faith.

It is not about materialism and science, it is about faith.

The author still has faith, still needs to believe, still wants to "stick with Marx", still wants to "affirm" the tenet he just destroyed, still considers himself Marxist and begs desperately fellow professional Marxists to help him (these are the only people who would ever read this journal, I am possibly first non-Marxist to stumble on this article)

This is completely natural human behavior. Rationalist credo "That which can be destroyed by the truth should be" is deeply abnormal for human beings.

Are you laughing at him? This is exactly the same thing as all who people who wish wistfully "if only I had faith in God" "if only I could belong to Church".

The vast majority of 'dating advice' young men are given (by the mainstream liberal feminist zeitgeist) is absoluting terrible and only land them in situations like this if they follow through with it.

What "dating advice" outside of porn movies tells young men to introduce themselves: "Hello sweetie. Wanna fuck?"

This article detailing how abortion access actually works across the first world. It seems to be significantly less accessible than the seeming American / Feminist default position of on-demand all the way up to birth across the rest of the first world.

No compromise breeds no compromise. Supporters of abortion rights know well that pro-lifers do not want "reasonable regulations", but want to ban abortion completely at any place and time (and then move to ban contraception, pornography, "sodomy", race mixing and everything else they see as immoral).

The same in gun politics - gun right supporters know well that anti-gunners do not want "reasonable gun control", but ban everything that looks like gun (and then move to knives and all sharp instruments, like in UK). If you compromise with the uncompromising, you always lose.

Among left-wing activists, they seemed to have moved from the previous default of "safe legal and rare" to being proud of abortions, shouting them from the rooftops, and openly advocating for as many of them as possible. This seems sick to me.

Again, the same with guns. Instead of fudds who just wanted to shoot Bambi, you got hard core gun nuts openly carrying big scary black rifles. This seems sick to gun controllers, and this is the point.

Classical Greece, Rome, India, Persia, were all spawned from Indo-European cultural, genetic, and linguistic legacy after the Bronze Age invasions.

Millenia later, time enough for psychopathic genes of original Indo-Europeans to be selected out and more pro-civilization traits emerge. Before it happened, Indo-Europeans achieved exactly zilch. Nothing "vague" about it, straight HBDIQ materialist science.

Razib is right, there is absolutely nothing to respect about continent size psycho killing spree, nothing to admire about people so stupid that cannot grok even idea of slavery.

Friends, stop the killing for a moment! Maybe if we leave the peasants alive and make them work for us, we can live well in big houses instead of huts and dugouts?

NO! BLOOD! GORE! DEATH! KILL! KILL! KILL!

...

I.E studies is going to likely remain a growing area of interest in the DR. It combines genetics, history, and mythmaking in a way that fosters a positive sense of identity and aspiration

Perhaps if you aspire to be school shooter or serial killer. If you have higher ambitions, the IE "legacy" has nothing to offer you.

If you wish the end (of drug free world) you must wish the means. There is no third way.

leftist crank?

If being skeptical about war on drugs narrative makes me "leftist", so be it.

COP: Do not do drugs, drugs are bad for your health!

CITIZEN: It is nice to learn that someone cares about my health. What would happen if I do drugs?

COP: You will go to prison.

CITIZEN: Prison is place where my health will get better?

COP: LOL. Prison is place of beating, rape and torture, as close to hell on earth as there could be. If you survive at all, you will come back as complete wreck, both physical and mental.

CITIZEN: But you said you care about my health?

COP: HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

BTW, happy new year to you, hopefully it will be better than this one.

Progressives have their wisdom – as any reactionary who's noticed he's reinventing bits of Derrida or Foucault may attest. My personal belief, in these terms, is admittedly close to the progressive one (rejoice, Hlynka) – with a humble twist informed by my notion of Death. I think supra-individual mental structures are only deserving of power inasmuch as they increase human freedom, with freedom imprecisely defined as the capacity to make diverse and spontaneous choices. Humans can be goaded, conditioned and coerced today if that allows them to be freer tomorrow, help them not mode-collapse into degenerate flanderized versions of themselves, not die a little. In this sense, the ethos of «legalize» was illegitimate, and the prudish ethos of contempt for deadbeat junkies is valid and, ultimately, liberating.

It's an egoistic point of view, of course. Were the latter more powerful, maybe I'd still have had one more friend.

So, what your proposal means in practice?

Cannabis is already illegal in Kyrgyzstan where your friend lives. He was able to easily evade these laws.

Therefore, valiant law enforcement of Kyrgyzstan should be more active and less lazy, should be given more power and really put their remaining gloves off, should double, quartuple and octuple their efforts.

Kyrgyzstan needs more arrests, more early morning raids, more prisons, more torture, more rape, more gouging of eyes and cutting off tongues, more skinning people alive, more boiling people alive in cauldrons. For great justice, for great freedom of free choices.

East Asian countries managed to do it, you would say. Japan, Singapore etc. are, for all practical purposes, drug free paradises.

True, and they are also completely gun free countries - something you, if I remember your stance correctly, very much disapprove of.

(IIRC, you strongly supported gun ownership not only for mainstream self defense reasons, but as a mean for the people to independently and preemptively hunt down bad hombres, very much in @KulakRevolt style. Someone with such attitude also supporting War of Drugs is not something I can grok.)

And this is connected. You cannot have war on drugs when everyone is armed, if you want to sent people to hell prison if they ingest the wrong substance, you need to disarm them first to the last nail clipper.

What's yours?

My view? Old timey internet view, I had no reason to update.

Drugs are bad.

Drug dealers, drug gangs, drug cartels are among the worst scum of the world.

War on drugs (started century ago for openly and proudly racist reasons and on completely false pretenses that make WMDs in Iraq look like pinnacle of transparency) is worse by several magnitudes, on every metric you can imagine.

His memoirs

"anarchist" who sees long dead penny ante dictator as divine being? Why not, point of real free speech is the opportunity to hear all voices!

Or any of the dozens of works he published.

If it proves anything, it proves that Pinochet memes are just garbage memes and no one really gives a fuck about El Presidente.

Any shit tier Japanese hentai manga is pirated and put online with fan made English (and Russian and Chinese and Korean) translation in few days after publication, for free, only from pure fannish devotion.

The Marxists had extensive online library of their classics as long as Internet was a thing.

The archive was created in 1990 by a person — known only by their Internet tag, Zodiac — who started archiving Marxist texts by transcribing the works of Marx and Engels into E-text, starting with the Communist Manifesto. In 1993 the accumulated text was posted on a gopher site at csf.colorado.edu. Volunteers joined and helped spread and mirror the main archive.

Where are Pinochet's fans? Why aren't they preserving and spreading gospel of their guru? Either they do not exist, or they are completely useless.

Even Pinochet himself didn't GAF. He could order his collected works to be translated to major world languages and distributed world wide to enlighten all mankind.

ALBANIA did it. No excuse for Chile.

Anyway, in age of internet, all this complaining that "banned books" are not printed by anyone is as obsolete as steam locomotive.

Do you think there is some obscure but important book that should be available to the world?

Put it on libgen.

You personally.

In the worst case, potato phone copy made in library.

Yes, many libraries today do allow photography. And even if they do not, perk of being anarchist is that you do not have to ask for permission.

It is not hard, there are people with nothing than little money and university library card who are doing it in their free time, these people made libgen into what it is.

Information does not want to be free.

Autistic obssessives want information to be free.

Be the change you want to see in the world.

edit: links, links, links linked up properly

we should restructure all of society based on these projections is yet another outlandish claim (with a side-helping of massive conflicts of interests)

These are two distinct propositions unrelated to each other.

"Leeches, bloodletting and self flagellation do nothing to stop plague."

"There is no plague. Fever, black spots all over the body and vomiting blood are completely normal. Everything is fine."

We should expect some kind of climate change a-priori. Anything else is nonsense. We've known CO2 is a greenhouse gas since 1859. Very basic.

Exactly. Climate change does not rest on Al Gore and Greta, it rests on basic 19th century science.

If you do not trust these free masons, you can replicate their experiments at home, you do not have to take their words on faith.

If your political tribe requires you to deny simple laws of physics, find better one.

So, if Joe Biden fired all Jews and replaced them with good Catholics, as good Catholics as himself and his family, your culture would be protected and you would be happy?

You in 1923:

These Jewish bolsheviks are horrible, this life is unbearable.

If only they were fired and replaced with Christians, if some good Christian man was in charge of the Party, someone who was raised by pious Christian mother, perhaps even someone who studied in Christian school, things would be so much better!

Moldbug's usual principle is: "Might makes right, the strong should do what they can and the weak must suffer what they must."

For some reasons, his application of this principle on the Middle East problem always is: "Palestine is lost cause, Palestinian resistance against Israel is futile, Palestinians should give up and leave the country", never "Israel is lost cause, Israeli resistance against Arab and Muslim world is futile, Israelis should give up and leave the Middle East for good."

The whole bleach thing was a leftist conspiracy that rightists believes it. But there’s also similar medical usages to kill viruses.

Using bleach as universal cure is way older than Trump presidency.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_Mineral_Supplement

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Miracle_Mineral_Supplement

(Yes, know all problems with rational wiki, but it is good resource for all kinds of alternative medicine and miracle treatments. Consulting RW before you decide to use ancient native cure instead of soulless Western medicine might save your wallet and your life)

Whether bleach use increased during coronavirus panic in response to Donald's unfortunate utterances, is disputed.

https://reason.com/2020/04/28/the-myth-of-the-bleach-drinking-masses/

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Christianity is at least as unbacked by evidence and reason as transgender ideology. Believing that a certain man 2000 years ago was the son of god and rose from the dead is at least as unbacked by evidence and reason as believing that a man can become a woman by calling himself a woman and doing surgeries.

In theory yes, in practice no. Your parents dragging you as child to church for dunking in cold water or to gender clinic for gender affirming treatment is one big difference.

But many people here on The Motte give Christianity a pass because it's really old and really popular and so it seems "normal", because they like its cultural/political connotations, and probably in some cases because they were raised Christian.

Because Christianity is no big issue here, because only arguments for Christianity usually presented here are: "it is ancient" "it is our tradition" "churches are beautiful" "church music is inspiring" "if you are lonely, you will find friends in church" "you must believe in something, why not Jesus" etc...

If poster, or group of posters tried to preach, evangelize and missionize here in noughties hardcore style, if they came and argued for literal existence of God, literal truth of the Bible and literal bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ, they would not be given any "pass", they would face strong opposition and generated lots of interesting discussions full of heat and light. Anyone who does not remember the great Atheist-Christian war of the noughties, missed internet at its best.

At any rate, I've never heard of this woman, even if I am familiar with the usual thought-leaders in the early 2000s New Atheism movement, even if that was before my time really. I don't mourn it, it managed to do its job before it died, or was subsumed into proto-Wokism as Scott suggests.

If you missed the Great Atheist-Christian War of the noughties, you missed the peak of the internet. All went downhill since then.

And if you were there, you would know that the "proto-woke" side was the creationist intelligent design one.

At least the better part of them - while the dumb ones tried to scientifically prove that six day creation and Noah flood were literally real, the smarter were loud antiracists and antifascists who were roaring how Darwin was racist colonialist genocidist and how "Darwinism" is source of all evil in modern history.

You got things like From Darwin to Hitler, Darwin's Plantation: Evolution's Racist Roots or even this.

STALIN'S FAITH--WHAT WAS IT?

Often an individual's faith is firmly attached to a book of some kind. Muslims have the Koran; Hindus, their Veda; and Christians, the Bible. Writings of Confucius, Buddha, and indeed, Mao Tse-Tung, serve similar purposes for other groups. In Stalin's case, the writings of Marx, Engels, and Lenin incited him, but to stop here would be premature. There is one man-book amalgam which may have been even more determinative for Stalin, especially during his youthful, impressionable years.

The man was Charles Darwin.

The book--his The Origin of Species.

To document this, appeal is made first to a book published in Moscow entitled, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin. It was written during Stalin's "glory," and was designed to set him in a positive light. Note in the selection cited, that faith in Darwin and his "book" contrasts markedly with faith in a supreme being:

At a very early age, while still a pupil in the ecclesiastical school, Comrade Stalin developed a critical mind and revolutionary sentiments. He began to read Darwin and became an atheist.

G. Glurdjidze, a boyhood friend of Stalin's, relates:

"I began to speak of God, Joseph heard me out, and after a moment's silence, said: "'You know, they are fooling us, there is no God. . . .' "I was astonished at these words, I had never heard anything like it before. "'How can you say such things, Soso?' I exclaimed. "'I'll lend you a book to read; it will show you that the world and all living things are quite different from what you imagine, and all this talk about God is sheer nonsense,' Joseph said. "'What book is that?' I enquired. "'Darwin. You must read it,' Joseph impressed on me"

They failed to cancel Darwin and all of his work, but not for the lack of trying.

Why should we take a step back to religious social technology? Well, I think we’re in a social dark ages. Our attention is consistently brought down to matters of consumerism and social strife. The idea of genuinely talking about and encouraging virtue among peers is Don Quixote levels of comical.

The idea of "encouraging virtue among peers" is stronger than ever, but for different definition of "virtue". People are very strongly encouraged and pushed every day to be more woke, more anti-racist, more anti-Trumpist, more active LGBTQ+ ally, more climate activist (insert another current week-month-year causes).

Yes, you would say that Christianity was not replaced with scientific reason and logic, but another religion, much more crazy and insane.

This is not good argument for Christianity - if it was so easily defeated and supplanted by something as absurd as bouquet of modern woke causes, then it was no barrier and no protection at all.

The assertions "All Cops Are Bastards" and "Some Cops Are Bastards" are vastly different.

Yes, evil bastard cops and good noble cops are very different. The bastard cops are doing their bastardly deeds, and the good cops look the other way and close ranks to defend their brothers at any cost. Such great difference.

Again, do you think that White Christian White House staffers would defend your interests and would see you as their "ally"?

So, does Israel have a case? Is Israeli behavior justifiable?

It depends on your premises.

1/If you believe in individual human rights, if you believe that murder is wrong, torture is wrong, imprisonment without trial is wrong, taking someone land and property without compensation is wrong, destroying people's houses and other collective punishments are wrong, then Israel is wrong.

2/If you believe in collective national rights, if you believe that land belongs to nation that lives there and foreigners showing up uninvited in someone else's country are wrong, then Israel is wrong.

3/If you believe in authority of United Nations, then Israel was right 76 years ago and is wrong ever since then.

4/If you believe that Bible is literally true, that Biblical laws are eternally binding, if you believe that Land of Israel was given by God to Hebrews for forever and ever, then Israel is wrong (for leaving any Palestinian or their livestock live).

5/If you believe that only right is might and only law is law of tooth and claw, then Israeli behavior is fine (and Palestinian terrorism is too).

Yes, ancient history was full of violence (just like modern history), but we (we non psychopaths) admire other ancient achievements.

There is difference between someone who, when thinking about Roman empire, thinks "The Romans built roads, bridges and aqueducts that lasted for millenia, they created unparallelled law, literature, art and architecture, they were so cool!" and someone who thinks "The Romans razed and burned cities so thoroughly that no trace remained, they perfected the art of torture, they decorated their roads with lines of crosses, they fed people to the beasts for fun, they were so cool!"

The sheer scale of the IE conquests is what makes it stand out especially.

Spread of black plague was even wider and faster. Do you too find Yersinia pestis "inspiring"?

In contrast, the Sardinians provide insight into the pre-Bronze Age farmer populations, as:

Sardinia appears to harbor the highest amounts of Neolithic farmer ancestry and very little of the pre-Neolithic hunter-gatherer or Bronze Age pastoralists ancestries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_from_Sardinia

Not bad achievements for small island, sparsely populated and desperately poor for all of recorded history. Continent of such people had no need to be "liberated" and "uplifted" by invasion of Ted Bundys and Jeffrey Dahmers.

All of this puts the non-Jewish White percent at 28.5%, counting the Turkish and Arab names as White (and ignoring the probably ~2% Native American that Joe slipped in there). And so, among White House staffers, Whites are quite under-represented and Jews are enormously over-represented.

This is problematic

Why?

Do you feel "represented" by White Christian White House staffers?

Do you feel that Biden's WCWHS are "your people", do you think that they see you as "one of them", do you think that they are protecting your interests, do you think that they look at you with more kindness and gentleness than their Jewish colleagues?

Nothing new, "public intellectual" just discovered ideas vigorously debated on youtube, tumblr and reddit at least for 10 years and feels very very smart.

Everyone here knows about antinatalism, now look at efilism.

Efil = life backward, recognition that all life is suffering, extinction of all life is the only way to stop all suffering and is therefore absolute moral necessity.

Yes, all comic book super villains who wanted to destroy the world were the real heroes, and the super heroes who stopped them were the real villains.

Efilism is the next logical step after understanding Anti-natalism.

https://francoistremblay.wordpress.com/2014/07/10/a-little-lexicon-childfree-antinatalist-efilist/

Now, let us look at the practical problems: is ending all suffering possible?

Yes, and it is easier and cheaper you would imagine.

Do not think about super plagues, nuclear weapons or asteroid hits - look at chemical compound called sulfur hexafluoride.

Ordinary non toxic, non flammable, non explosive gas, fully legal to buy and possess, useful for many industrial applications and goofy party tricks, that just happens to be 23,900 times more effective greenhouse gas than CO2.

It could be affordable for single billionaire to manufacture in secret enough HF6 to turn Earth's climate into Venus' one.

All life will cook out in few days/weeks and then all suffering will end for forever. Some bacteria might survive deep in Earth's crust, but they will not be complex enough to feel pain.

Mission accomplished.

Diversity of opinion?

Be careful what you wish for.

This place was not exactly friendly to something as mainstream and sane as holocaust revisionism, would you really welcome here unironic believers in gnomes, fairies, vampires and lizard people?

but there's only so much we can do to foster that, unfortunately.

Foster that? It would be easy - just promote this site in obscure corners of the web as place where all opinions are respected and given fair hearing, and you will be surprised who will come.

https://i.imgur.com/bCddAvk.jpg