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Iconochasm

2. Bootstrap the rest of the fucking omnipotence.

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joined 2022 September 05 00:44:49 UTC

				

User ID: 314

Iconochasm

2. Bootstrap the rest of the fucking omnipotence.

2 followers   follows 10 users   joined 2022 September 05 00:44:49 UTC

					

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User ID: 314

There is a whole TV-series produced to skew the narrative that torture is effective way to combat terror, despite that there being ample evidence that people being tortured will eventually make shit up to avoid being tortured. Also properly motivated persons can withstand extraordinary amounts of pain and delay the divulging of useful intel to the interrogator. So it is not an effective way of gathering information about impending attacks, because motivated and trained people can delay, lie or do anything in between to fulfill their goals and innocent people will probably just make something up to make the torture stop by guessing what the interrogator wants to hear. Yet we have multiple seasons of 24 to implant the idea that torture is effective.

I think you're missing the simple fact that torture scenes are incredibly dramatic. High stakes, sky-high emotions all around, desperate time tables, etc. And there were still plenty of times in 24 where it didn't work, where the revelation that the torturee held a critical detail back was the dramatic segue into the next phase of the ridiculously circuitous plan of the season.

Monte-bailey?

Yeah, I saw that. Pretty close to my existing opinion on the influence of The Daily Show, except I think TDS had a much more destructive influence on the lefter shows than Fox, because Fox was already pretty low-brow culture war. I think TDS taught an entire generation of progressives that political debate consisted of sneering at maliciously edited caricatures of the outgroup, and we are still deaing with the repercussions of that.

I think it's different for the reason that switching from "he" to "she" does not discommode me much, while switching from "Jonathan Sunshine" to "Gloomraven, Lord of All Sorrows" would be ridiculous and asinine and is fortunately something that only happens in ridiculous and asinine straw man what ifs.

Back in the ancient days of AOL and Ryhddin chatrooms, i once met a teenaged boy IRL who wanted to be called Angel when he was in a good mood and Angelus when he was in a dangerous mood.

I'm honestly not sure how valid the connection is, but it feels easy to intuit a line from the warlocks and druids I played Vampire the Masquerade with 20 years ago to the otherkin and therianopes of the early teens to the gender creatives of the last five years.

You are basically acknowledging that some middle group with attributes of each gender exists,

Many of those traits are not just a linear spectrum, but seperate meters that we expect different genders to optimize differently. There are men who are weak cowards who also fail to be caring and compassionate.

My impression is that opinion in Fox had become extremely polarized by the mid Bush II years. Opinions on the other networks didn't really crater until the last 5-10 years. But at this point, almost no one has a generally favorable view of "the media". We might see a more nuanced picture if there were another question like "Is there any national televised news you think is trustworthy?"

How does Fox compare to CNN+MSNBC+ABC+NBC+CBS?

Because they have other reasons than naked self-interest (which again, is just a cheap accusation that can be lobbied against anyone).

Ok, so what are those reasons? You're just blanket assuming one side in a generic conflict is in the right.

The self-interest of citizens have to be balanced against each other

Yes, because everyone has the right to advocate for their own self-interest. Failing to recognize that is, as Kant might put it, treating people as mere means rather than ends in themselves.

There’s a dispute between two farmers over ownership of a donkey. The village gathers in the square to hear their cases. The first one says witnesses saw him buy it , he can describe it from memory, that he frequently helps other villagers with it, and so on. The second one replies that he doesn’t care about good justifications, it should be given to him because it is in his self-interest, he doesn’t understand why everyone is so naive, it’s also in the other guy’s self-interest to get the donkey.

In this silly scenario you've concocted to try to prove your point, the first guy is the NIMBY, the established interest with existing skin in the game, who doesn't want to lose sunk costs for existing benefits to some second person whose main justification is "but it would be good for me".

And frankly, even if you devise some second scenario where the utility argument could come down in favor of the second person, it's still valid to not want to eat the costs of externalities for things that benefit other people.

How can it be good enough? Obviously it is in my interest to receive money from the government. Should that be policy?

Because it's good enough for the YIMBYs? Why is it good for them to demand policies that serve their naked self-interest, but bad for other people to do so? The fact that those "other people" have already invested significant effort and capital into their backyards, as it were, seems like a powerful argument for defaulting to their preferences. In any case, this argument seems like a sleight of hand in which we carefully obscure that both factions have a self-interest at play.

The public thing is about the common good. If you are harmed by a policy, you have to prove that you are harmed more than others benefit. Nimbys don't seem to 'act only according to that maxim whereby they can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law'(because nothing would be built), and that's not a good sign.

I'm sorry, but you don't get to invoke utilitarianism and Kant in the same breath. Kant is anti-utility; his deployment is inherently suspect.

Whether yimbis also have selfish reasons on top of good justifications is irrelevant.

What is the difference between a good justification and a selfish reason except framing and intellectual charity?

/fantasy had been generally pro the show, but the discussion thread for the finale was fairly barren, and reduced to disappointment and recycled Morbius memes."My favorite part was when she said 'It's Galadrielin' Time!' It was definitely one of the episodes of the year."

If you saw the same article with only this distinction, would you tell anyone they were meaningfully different? I wouldn't.

The problem is you would never see that article in the first place, at least framed that way. The interview would be chopped and pasted and recontextualized as something like "DeSantis angrily disputes homophobic concerns from civil rights groups". I watch network news in the morning because my parents do, and they want to talk to me about it, and the problem is exactly what Pushaw is talking about. They see 40 seconds of clips featuring three different question/responses from an interview with Hershel Walker, and they have no idea how long that interview was, what was left out, what context is being omitted, etc. They just get the impression that "Walker was interviewed by the news and this is what he had to say". They don't even notice until I point it out that that 40 seconds features more intense grilling than all Democrats combined have gotten on that channel in the last two years.

Compared to living with that crap, a full court press delegitimating effort is at least an actionable strategy. Actually treat them like the partisan SuperPAC they essentially are.

At some point in the recent past it was probably true that national news organizations were more accurate/fair in their reporting than the explicit partisanship of right-aligned media.

ABC morning news in 2022 reminds me of clips John Stewart would play of Glenn Beck in 2004. Even the pretense of objectivity feels like gaslighting. They don't care at all that you learn any facts about what happened, the only important thing is that you feel who are the bad guys (the Republicans) and who are the good guys (the Democrats).

naked self-interest.

Why isn't that good enough? Do you think the YIMBYs expect to be harmed by their policies?

Doesn't taste or feel like anything. I would extend that to pretty much all light cigarettes. I suppose that's what some people are going for.

Is this what they call Silvers these days? Because Silvers were the best of the lights. And the reason you go with the lights is after the first time you get drunk and kill a pack of cowboy killers in four hours and viscerally feel the damage you're doing to your chest.

whereas US equity ideology fairly reliably favours the rich and urbane over the poor and boorish).

So does socialism, in many cases. It's hardly novel to note that much of the energy and leadership in socialist movements comes from upperclass failsons who reliably prioritize using the movement to claim status and resources for themselves over actually helping the truly disadvantaged. Writers like Orwell and Steinbeck were noting this dynamic a century ago.

My kid's school nurse informed me that they are back to "24 hours after the fever ends". You can probably be marginally less careful than that.

Republicans want to claim that NYC is being hypocritical for complaining about a stress that only appeared once Abbott got involved.

But that's the point. Why is it a stress? Your whole argument hinges on NY being able to easily absorb the amounts they're receiving. If that's not the case (and it clearly isn't), then there's something different about the cohort of folks illegally crossing the southern border and making an asylum claim compared to the general block of people who are not legal residents of the US.

Put it this way: Is NY getting an amount of the people who crossed last month that is proportional to how much they represent support of the border crisis / open border situation? That 4-6% of the population might be a serious under-proportion if NY Senators and Congresscritters represent 15-20% of the defacto national support for the present shitshow. Similarly, if NY illegal immigrants are mostly people who overstayed visas, or long-time illegal residents who have been in the US for 10 years and have significantly acclimated, that might be trivially easier to deal with than a comparable number of Venezuelan refugees who just finished a 4,000 mile death trek.

Recently trained a dane/mastiff mix on this. When she got too nippy, I would make an exaggerated show of refusing to give her attention for a minute, but tug ropes are a fine and fun game for us to play. She does still randomly bring other things like toys (or stuffed animals she stole from one of the kids rooms) like she wants to play tug, but I just gently take it from her and get a rope. It's more silly than a problem, similarly with how she occasionally wants to put her mouth on you, or nibble on my beard.

So, I am no expert, but compartmentalizing when and how the tug of war game could be played worked easily for training.

The original argument was that sanctuary cities didn't have their "fair share" of illegal migrants.

Was it? I think the argument I've heard is more "You want them? You take them." And they clearly treat getting relatively small numbers as a catastrophe that they have little capacity to handle, so I find the "already getting their 'fair share'" stats to be deeply suspicious.

what's the justification for shipping them more migrants?

Rubbing their noses in NIMBY hypocrisy is quite sufficient.

Imagine an alternate world where Democrats found some clever way to publish the names of the daughters of rich politicians who had abortions. Imagine the Republicans freaking out and sputtering bullshit protests when they are obviously just upset that their constituents are finding out how many of their mistresses are getting abortions. Do you think you would be sympathetic to their plight? Can you muster up a comparable defense of Hershel Walker's abortion scandal?

Because in real life situations, race is almost never the relevant inflection point. You almost always have more specific information that swamps out any signal from race.

Speaking as a working class white, I've never noticed it from blue tribe customers or clients. I can't say there's no chance they aren't picking up that I can follow, but I've seen how they treat black coworkers and the difference is stark. I mean the guy who was a demanding asshole with sky high standards at me yesterday will be patient, soft-spoken and understanding with a black coworker today. It definitely feels like a noticeable pattern.

I mean, my two cents is that nonviolent drug offenders should have their records wiped clean after they get out of prison.

This actually is doable in a lot of states You do have to clear the additional hurdle of "being able to hire a lawyer and accomplish paperwork", which is a sort of filter for a minimal degree of functionality.

It has the critical advantage of being very easy to prove (or frame, for that matter).