Londondare
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User ID: 2665
Ok, an extreme example, here is an extreme answer: before they review the tapes, the resident will be sent home, maybe put on administrative leave. Even after he is cleaned some people will keep whispering about the accusations. That is not a "no damage at all".
More realistically: Guy filmed a gal begging him for sex and preventing him from leaving. He left. She accused him, he submitted the video as evidence but was expelled anyway. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Feibleman_v._Columbia_University
Or this one: Mr Hawker, who had been at Devonport High School for Girls in Plymouth for five years, was suspended, arrested and then fired for 'gross misconduct' – despite reports that the girls had admitted they lied about everything 'because it was fun'. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12635681/Male-teacher-sacked-sex-assault-wins-45000.html
Londondare
I am new here
6mo ago
Difference between victim blaming and common sense advise is when the narrative impacts the perception of the crime and makes it more common.
Flashing a diamond in a bad neighbourhood is an extreme example. Better example is locals in a bad neighbourhood closing an eye to a normal tourist getting mugged there, and even buying stolen goods, because everybody knows he should have know better? The general narrative you repeat influences the reality.
Londondare
I am new here
6mo ago
Does it? There seem to be something wrong with archive right now.
Londondare
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6mo ago
I didn't say that "not taking an action to reduce your personal risk" makes what happened to you "more deserved or justified.
Correct, you did not say that. You steel-manned your argument, I steel-manned mine. That does not mean my argument represents a direct refutation of your argument.
Calling my argument BS with no explanation is simply not a convincing reply to anyone who doesn't already agree with you.
You are right. Your argument that not every false accusation is completely false is partly appeal to ignorance and partly middle ground fallacy. Better?
I never said this
Again, you you steel-manned your argument, I steel-manned mine. That does not mean my argument represents a direct refutation of your argument.
So we have a tradeoff here
I think this is a false dichotomy. Moran could have easily used different words to both give a good advice to young men while not victim blaming falsely accused.
Londondare
I am new here
6mo ago
Except in practice it is recognise that a hookup is bad only for the woman an only she can not give true consent.
Londondare
I am new here
6mo ago
Sorry, but yes, you are confused. The discussion is not about rape, the discussion is about false accusations. Moran is talking about a hypothetical situation where women already gave a clean consent after which she "might need to, for the defense of her reputation, say, “He raped me.”"
So instead of "don't teach women to not get raped; teach men to not rape" say "don't teach men to not get falsely accused; teach women to not falsely accuse". Sadly, Moran is teaching men to not get falsely accused.
The advice should be perhaps paraphrased into "If you are not in the right headspace and you made a young man at a party believe you gave a clear consent to sex, don't falsely accuse him afterwards just because you might need to defend your reputation."
Londondare
I am new here
6mo ago
You are correct. Consider that Megan Fox and E Ratajkowski are now examples of feminism. Making men to lust for you is now considered empowering. So this is not a reversal of sexual revolution for both genders.
Londondare
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6mo ago
rockstars fucking their 15 year old groupies without social sanction has drawn to a close.
Strawman.
Londondare
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6mo ago
You could equally steelman the argument of those who oppose "victim blaming":
- Not taking an action to reduce your personal risk does not make what happened to you (being raped or falsely accused) more deserved or justified. Victim blaming creates an atmosphere where the crime is slightly more acceptable thus slightly more likely to happen.
- Not every consensual sex is 100% consensual (to be honest this is BS and your corresponding argument is BS too).
- Even if you are doing something illegal or wrong it does not mean rape or false accusation is justified. Just because you are full of coke and dancing topless it does not mean your rape is somehow deserved or justified. Even if you are deliberately banging a psycho chick that you don't really like, because you don't want to be a virgin any more, it does not mean that her falsely accusing you is somehow deserved or justified.
Londondare
I am new here
6mo ago
Hopefully this meme will not catch on with other feminists, we'll have to see.
Whether other feminists emulate her is one thing. The question is why is no one protesting such formulations in The New York Times? How come she is not "cancelled"?
Londondare
I am new here
6mo ago
On the other, they could result in no damage at all to the falsely accused, and nobody cares at all.
I can't imagine such scenario. Maybe in the 90s, but I can't image any institution, be it school, employer or the police to downplay a rape accusation and not to start an investigation immediately. As soon as accusation is investigated, it gets public and it causes lot of damage - even if the accused has strong evidence to his favour, which is rarely the case in a he-said, she-said situation.
Londondare
I am new here
6mo ago
sexual marketplace. (Yeah, I just used that Manosphere phrase
TBH I am MRA but I never connected sexual marketplace with Manosphere. How about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_economics?
Londondare
I am new here
6mo ago
I disagree with the second part of your comment. There really is a social mechanism by which blaming the dress encourages the perpetrator.
Londondare
I am new here
6mo ago
Actual sex is bad for women, but teasing men or using your looks to get paid is apparently liberating for women. Hence the new wave of feminism by the likes of E Ratajkowski or Megan Fox.
Londondare
I am new here
6mo ago
I think the point of "don’t dress like a slut" being "victim blaming" is that you are supposed to be able to dress whatever you like and that your dress is never an invitation to be raped. I actually agree with the concept of "victim blaming" and disagree with you.
Londondare
I am new here
7mo ago
Is this a full blown victim blaming in the most influential printed medium by decorated feminist? Or am I overreacting?
New York Times: There’s a sentence in the new book that I was curious about, and this goes back to the questions about the trickiness of generalizing and of using a certain kind of rhetorical style: You’re discussing the rarity of false accusations of date rape, and you write, I’m paraphrasing, that there are mentally ill or damaged women who will make those kinds of accusations, and the only thing a young guy can do is not have sex with damaged or mentally ill women. That’s a bit of a flip way of addressing that problem, isn’t it?
Caitlin Moran: That’s possibly my most overt piece of feminism. Obviously #NotAllMen, but I have experienced enough men where the thing at a party is that you’re hunting for the girl on the edge of the pack who’s a bit drunk, bit needy. I can remember dads telling their sons in pubs where I come from, “Crazy bitches are always the best [expletive].” It’s just saying to men as a kind and loving mother with some wisdom that if there’s a woman who is mentally ill, disturbed or needy or unhappy or really drunk at a party, leave her alone. The last thing she needs is a penis. If she’s an upset, needy person and you [expletive] her and then the rumor starts going around school, she might need to, for the defense of her reputation, say, “He raped me.” You’ve put yourself in a dangerous situation because you’ve done a foolish thing.
nytimes.com: https://archive.ph/tZn3B#selection-457.82-457.95
How is this different from "You’ve put yourself in a dangerous situation because you’ve done a foolish thing by flirting with that guy wearing that dress"?
Londondare
I am new here
7mo ago
Different interventions [...] being in captivity
This suggest the LEGG mechanism is not biological
Human eunuchs live longer than regular men of same class.
My guess would be eunuchs have way fewer accidents than men with testosterone? :)
Then a bit about how you can't separate biology/society
That is of course true
with more egalitarian (in the class sense) societies tending to have much smaller gaps.
Source? I think it depends on what you mean by egalitarian, but I don't think this is correct.
which makes it sadly much harder to fix.
Does it? What evidence makes you think so?
Londondare
I am new here
7mo ago
I like your reasoning. The question is, where are the studies? At minimum, we should be able to compare non-drinking vegans from the same background working the same job.
Londondare
I am new here
7mo ago
I think you are right.
Londondare
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7mo ago
height is one of the strongest predictor of low life expectancy.
Is it? Source?
Larger animals tend to live longer because metabolism scales slower than size.
Londondare
I am new here
7mo ago
What would be the evolutionary advantage of longevity among women? Helping with grand children and labour? Is there any research around this hypothesis?
Londondare
I am new here
7mo ago
Greater variability on it's own does not explain the skewing of the life expectancy curve to one side. If it was greater variability on it's own, the long lived men would cancel out the short lived men and the effect of life expectancy would be zero.
Any chance you could remember what was in your eaten content?
What do you mean by maladaptive traits? lifestyle choices?
And thanks for the sci hub reference, I found it!
Londondare
I am new here
7mo ago
Not for pensions.
manosphere/redpilled/motte-ish? I don't understand what it means.
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