Londondare
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User ID: 2665
Londondare
I am new here
1mo ago
This is a good point, but do we know WHY do men have much higher risk tolerance and lower inhibition?
Moreover, in today's political climate, don't we want to achieve equal outcome? If the factors are biological, then we need health research funding to achieve equal outcomes. If the factors are social, then we need health research funding and social programs to achieve equal outcomes.
Mind you, almost all dangerous jobs are done by men. Chemical exposure, mental stress, transportation - you name it.
Londondare
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1mo ago
See note 2.2
only about 7%-10% of the women's health research was in the "Reproductive & Maternal/Child/Adolescent Health" category.
Londondare
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1mo ago
I'd be curious to know how much...
See Fact 2.
Gender neutral research: 80% of funding.
Women's health research: 14% of funding.
Men's health research: 6% of funding.
Londondare
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1mo ago
I have no idea whether that claim is accurate
I think it is accurate to an extent - yes, women's health research WAS underfunded for a long time but apparently the impact wasn't big enough to be reflected in the burden of disease, 53% of which is carried by men.
Londondare
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1mo ago
I think that Biden may have been imprecisely referencing the idea that many 'gender neutral' medical studies are done only on men
This is not the case for a long time now. From 2010 to 2020 the ratio of women in clinical trials oscillated between 52% and 62%.
Source https://orwh.od.nih.gov/sites/orwh/files/docs/ORWH_BiennialReport2019_20_508.pdf, Apendix E, Table 1A.
Also, I don't think it follows that men having higher disease burden means men's health should receive more of the gendered medical research funding. It may mean that men should get more healtchare funding.
I think this is a very good point.
In fact, it's even possible that the 'gender neutral funding' covers gender neutral conditions that affect more men
This goes against the definition. See Note 2.3. If I am not mistaken, a condition is considered gendered as soon as it crosses the 45%-55% ration.
Londondare
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1mo ago
Is the claim not...
No. The claim is:
research on women’s health has always been underfunded.
In any case, men suffer more than half of burden of disease, apparently we do not address male health enough.
if women have as much rights as children
In western democracies, Women have more legal rights than men. There are almost no laws or regulations that discriminate against women but more than few that discriminate against men.
Londondare
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1mo ago
See my PS. I consider that type of argument to be in bad fait.
Londondare
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1mo ago
a) that is incorrect, see Note 2.3
b) if men suffer 53% of burden of disease then whatever the current level of male centric is not enough.
Women's health needs to be studied more because
men suffer 53% of burden of disease.
In an equal world, women and men are assumed to have the same expected lifespan.
In a slightly less equal world men will still be victim of majority of accidents and suicides. That is why the Burden of Disease is calculated with the expected lifespan 82 for women and 80 for men.
Londondare
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1mo ago
Possibly yes, but Fact 3 tells me these risks are not too high and/or already managed.
Londondare
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1mo ago
I am kindly asking this knowledgable community to check my data and my argument.
Fact 1
In the 2024 state of the union address Biden said:
Women are more than half of our population but research on women’s health has always been underfunded.
Biden used this argument to call for more funding for women's health research:
That’s why we’re launching the first-ever White House Initiative on Women’s Health Research, led by Jill who is doing an incredible job as First Lady. Pass my plan for $12 Billion to transform women’s health research and benefit millions of lives across America!
https://www.whitehouse.gov/state-of-the-union-2024/
Fact 2
The NIH 2017, 2018 and 2019 research budget breakdown is:
-
Gender neutral research: 80% of funding.
-
Women's health research: 14% of funding.
-
Men's health research: 6% of funding.
Source: Report of the Advisory Committee on Research on Women’s Health: 2017–2019, table 8, page 117. https://orwh.od.nih.gov/sites/orwh/files/docs/ORWH_BiennialReport2019_20_508.pdf
In other words, Biden was not saying the truth because at least in 2017, 2018 and 2019 women's health research received more than double the funding compared to man's health research.
Note 2.1
83% of all medical research in the US is funded via NIH. The other 17% may be funded via private foundations and organizations, pharmaceutical companies and other for-profit entities, or via state and local governments.
Source: https://www.nih.gov/about-nih/what-we-do/budget
Note 2.2
Funding of the reproductive & maternal care is certainly justified and will be always reported as women's specific research funding - but only about 7%-10% of the women's health research was in the "Reproductive & Maternal/Child/Adolescent Health" category.
Source: Report of the Advisory Committee on Research on Women’s Health: 2017–2019, table 9, page 117. https://orwh.od.nih.gov/sites/orwh/files/docs/ORWH_BiennialReport2019_20_508.pdf
Note 2.3
NIH defines “Women’s health conditions,” as...
...defined in section 141 of the NIH Revitalization Act of 1993 (PublicLaw 103–43), include all diseases, disorders, and conditions:
- That are unique to, more serious in, or more prevalent in women
- For which the factors of medical risk or types of medical intervention are different for women or for which it is unknown whether such factors or types are different for women
- With respect to which there has been insufficient clinical research involving women as subjects or insufficient clinical data on women
Source: Report of the Advisory Committee on Research on Women’s Health: 2021–2022 https://orwh.od.nih.gov/sites/orwh/files/docs/ORWH_Biennial%20Report_121823_1516_F_508c_Optimized.pdf
Note 2.4
After 2019, the NIH has decided to stop calculating data on men's health research funding. This means that it will no longer be possible to show that men's health research is grossly underfunded compared to women's health research. I wonder what the motivation was for this decision.
NIH does not currently calculate or report annual funding associated with projects dedicated solely to men’s health or projects benefiting men and women.
Source: Report of the Advisory Committee on Research on Women’s Health: 2021–2022 https://orwh.od.nih.gov/sites/orwh/files/docs/ORWH_Biennial%20Report_121823_1516_F_508c_Optimized.pdf
Fact 3
Globally men suffer 53.4% of all Burden of Disease.
Global Burden of Disease: https://ghdx.healthdata.org/gbd-2019
Note 3.1
In the US specifically:
Men over the past decade have shown poorer health outcomes than women across all racial and ethnic groups as well as socioeconomic status.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/5986/text?r=16
PS: I do not consider the argument "research on women’s health is underfunded because all health research is underfunded" a good faith argument.
Londondare
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1mo ago
ok, thanks
Why am I getting a comment on a non-published draft?
Londondare
I am new here
5mo ago
I admit that I am not an expert on Google Scholar but I was struggling to find anything useful in those papers. However the Swedish paper you found is super relevant and it is on the first result page so I apparently was not looking hard enough :)
As for your argument that studying the LEGG is difficult, I have my doubts. I am in no way a statistician or sociologist, but I was able to do a decent analysis in my spare time in Excel. A team of trained professionals, who know where to look for existing datasets and what statistical tools to use should be able to crack the problem "in no time".
Londondare
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5mo ago
I think you are right.
Londondare
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6mo ago
it seems like men hating is becoming Hollywood's new profitable strategy.
Londondare
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6mo ago
In Moran's example the woman was "damaged" or "disturbed or needy or unhappy" and "an upset, needy person". By shifting the argument to "drunkeness/mental illness" you are making a weakman version of it which brings little value to the discussion.
Londondare
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6mo ago
Ok, you are right. That being said, I don't think your extreme example brings much value to the discussion.
Londondare
I am new here
6mo ago
What does Scott Alexander mean by "if from racism school dot tumblr dot com" in https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/07/social-justice-and-words-words-words/ ?
Londondare
I am new here
6mo ago
the optimal amount of victim blaming is non-zero
I agree with you in many things and disagree in some.
Londondare
I am new here
6mo ago
Thanks for sharing your point of view - I never thought about it this way.
From my perspective, the average false accusation is worse than the average rape. Hear me out. When we say rape, we imagine blodied women in torn clothes left to die in a ditch, right? But that is far from the average case. When I look around me, when I read the media, I mostly see very different rape. They were both 16 and he is now accused of statutory rape (she is not). Or they both had couple-lot of drinks, he is now accused of rape (she is not). Or he was in position of power and she was sleeping with him for years until she realised he was actually raping her the whole time. Or he was rich and famous and now he does not want to pay. Yes, there is lot of the he was pressuring her too much, she did not really wanted it, she did not really know how to say no. Then there is the she changed her mind afterwards, she was embarrassed, afraid for her reputation, afraid of her family, her friends socially pressured to report it as a rape. There are the scorned lovers. And of course all the accusations in custody and divorce battles.
I would trade any of those for being falsely accused, any time. Firstly, you have to prove your innocence, not the other way around. Even if you are super lucky and there is a physical evidence in your favour, this may not help you at all. You will be tried in a kangaroo court. Your boss/employer will much rather face your lawsuit for wrongful termination than face the negative public image of protecting a rapist. Your career is over, your social life is over, your private life is over. You will probably be arrested, you will be threatened with a long prison sentence, you will be blackmailed by a prosecutor offering you a sweet deal if you confess to what you did not do. Exonerating evidence will be withheld by rogue police and prosecution. Your reputation will be ruined. You will be depressed, bankrupted, marked for life, registered as sex offender. You will forever loose access to your children. (Do you have children? Can you imagine someone can legally take them away from you for ever?)
Again, I would much rather suffer average rape than average false accusation.
Notably, Moran is talking about exactly such "average rape". I quote: "woman who is mentally ill, disturbed or needy or unhappy or really drunk at a party, [...] If she’s an upset, needy person [...] she might need to, for the defense of her reputation, say, “He raped me.”"
Londondare
I am new here
6mo ago
Who/whom.
? sorry I am not native speaker and I don't understood what you mean.
there’s no language to describe sexual bad behavior other than ‘unconsensual’
This is just a wordplay. All depends on your definition of "sexual bad behavior".
vulnerable woman when she’s a bit drunk
Moran also talks about "needy or unhappy" or "damaged", please don't build a weakman.
Londondare
I am new here
6mo ago
It works for me right now (shrug emoji)
Very interesting link, thanks
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