BANNED USER: /comment/21314
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
White, right-wing, male.
User ID: 101
Banned by: @ZorbaTHut
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
3yr ago
The skill of it? The technique? The way the artist struggles with the medium, be it stone or paint, and solves for themselves the problem put to them? You see no difference in watercolours versus oils, impasto versus a smooth glossy finish, the way the artist blends colours and shades to achieve an effect - who would have thought that green and yellow and mauve would be part of painting flesh tones in a human face, but they are.
Those are all differences in the end product, too. The skill and technique are relevant so far as they create a different output to enjoy.
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
3yr ago
If you take as given that Putin will lose power eventually, what do you think are the most likely ways in which that happens?
He has a stroke or heart attack.
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
3yr ago
You don't need to be an individualist to see the value in trivializing the creation of luxury goods. Bond with people over a shared appreciation of the art, rather than the making of it -- which is typically a private and boring affair, anyway.
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
3yr ago
Art isn't dumb at all. I have plenty of pictures on my walls that I find aesthetically pleasing. They're not high status, they were free, gifts from a friend who liked Bos Ross landscapes, would smoke, and paint his heart out.
Art as an elite status competition is stupid, but I don't really care. Let the elites posture.
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
3yr ago
If I memorize how to paint a Mona Lisa replica, am I as impressive as Leonardo?
If you can memorize how to perfectly replicate Leonardo's entire catalogue, I am comfortable calling you his artistic equal. Arguably we could say he still beats you in the mental aspects of composition, so an original piece of yours might not command the same respect -- but to segue back to the real topic, in time we'll see the same dynamic in AI art. There will be people who covet the status symbol of a limited physical good, and patronize human artists; there will be the masses who consume product and are satisfied; and there will be the pioneers of the field, who see that the future of art is not in the mechanical expression but in the mechanical expression, singing to the machines and optimizing the production of their unique mental images.
Art will never disappear. We'll just paint with words instead of brushes.
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
3yr ago
I agree with what you say here. The way I see it, what AI is is the decoupling of art-as-status from art-as-product. People value the labor of prestigious artists because that artist has a monopoly on good artistic output. They respect the work so far as dedication is necessary to hone a craft, but if they could snap their fingers and make fantastic <music/video games/character portraits/illustrations for their novel/whatever>, they would, gladly.
Once the masses can produce art that satisfies aesthetic preferences, the status-artists will lose a huge market share. It's understandable why they'd bitch and moan, but it's the gurgling of a dying creature.
Rather ironic given your flair!
One must crush their enemies to enjoy the peace of a world without enemies.
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
3yr ago
"This man didn't create art -- he held an image in his mind and put it on a canvas through the movements of his hand and arm!"
Bro, at that point he's not faking anything, he's just actually making art.
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
3yr ago
Tomato, tomato. The ultimate triumph of medicine would eliminate doctors. The ultimate triumph of creation would eliminate creators. If we could all be our own little Gods, speaking worlds into being, it'd take a real odd sort to gnash his teeth over all the construction workers and carpenters put out of business.
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
3yr ago
But how can you prevent imposters from submitting AI art to museums and competitions? It would be as if a bodybuilder could hide a hydraulic arm under his clothes (or take steroids!) and compete without working.
Same way powerlifting tournaments prevent imposters: make them do the labor on-site.
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
3yr ago
If what you say is true, there is no cause for concern! If there is some ineffable quality of realness to authentic human-made art, and revealed preference does indeed show people prefer it, then AI art is not a threat to real artists.
I wonder why all the artists don't have that same confidence.
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
3yr ago
The sentiment behind the expression is straightforward: women should not be taken seriously. This is used as a catchall reminder of the various dysfunctions more prevalent among women than men.
Yes, it's straightforwardly sexist, and probably shouldn't be okay to say here.
I can't imagine caring about the work that goes into art. Art is a product; the process is not something to exalt, it's something to lament, because the process has only ever been an imperfect means of translating the perfection of thought into the rough matter of reality with crude tools. A statue is beautiful because it is beautiful; it is no less beautiful if God willed it into being with the merest flick of his finger, and no more beautiful if the most devoted artisan spent his entire life on it.
Work for work's own sake is an abhorrent waste of time and energy. I rejoice at the prospect of AI obsoleting the artist -- and any lover of the arts should. A doctor should think a world that has no need of him is amazing; a soldier should long for a world that doesn't need soldiers; and wouldn't it be grand if we had no need of farmers, for all were fed?
The ultimate triumph of a field is self-destruction.
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
3yr ago
This immediately fails if blacks have even worse outcomes and norms than southern Whites, or non-black southern minorities. If the culture sucked for everyone, but blacks are worse again, once more the dread wolf Racism rears his head.
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
3yr ago
The alt-right as a movement died with Charlottesville and Richard Spencer; it was basically the right version of Occupy. Energy that went nowhere. These days, the group is much larger, but also less coherent. Others have pointed to MAGA, dissident right, etc., and these are all related, but not exactly direct children of the Alt-Right.
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
3yr ago
Sure, in my hypothetical world I'd accept the risk of being killed if I became strung-out hobo junkie. As I'm confident I'll never be that, it's an acceptable risk.
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
3yr ago
I'd support that, but there is a difference between killing someone and letting them kill themselves.
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
3yr ago
No. The disabled are in fact on the bottom rung of society. Not the absolute worst -- let's save that for predators, addicts, career criminals, etc -- but low enough to count as dregs.
The ideal society would be a society with no disabled people. How could disability be anything but horrifically low status?
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
3yr ago
OP's claim was completely different: " someone who is not already inured to their sight would almost certainly feel some level of disgust were he to encounter their average representatives." In other words, that the normal reaction to seeing someone in a wheelchair is one of disgust. That is the claim that I am taking issue with, not with the obvious fact that someone who uses a wheelchair is unable to walk.
These are the same claims, though, just worded a bit differently. Of course someone in a wheelchair is disgusting, to some extent; their handicap is depressing, their inability to do basic things is shameful. The world would be better, and that person would be better, if they weren't in a wheelchair. They are a permanent sign of something bad.
That doesn't make them the world's worst people. But it does bar them from ever being the best.
The OP explicitly referred not to "the dregs of society" but rather to average handicapped persons.
Same thing.
I have not claimed that tolerating them is a sign of virtue; in fact, I have claimed the exact opposite: That tolerating them, or at least not being disgusted by them, is normal.
Well obviously not, or we wouldn't have needed and still need social campaigns to support them, tolerate them, special olympics to make them feel included, etc., etc. You don't need to try so hard to make people do normal things. Children point and stare and make bad comments; that's normal. We have to chastise them until they learn to hide it.
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
3yr ago
The disgust is what makes the empathy sincere. It is no great love to love the beautiful, the abled, the pleasant; that is natural, and all people love them. But love the leper -- disgusting, oozing, broken, repulsive, dangerous? Well, now that's a shining soul.
The crippled are innately worse people. They are crippled. Those who rise above their limitation through hard work and grit warrant a certain respect, but for the most part, the broken are gross. Being hovered over by a super autist is uncomfortable. Watching a kid with a Downy stroke-face flip his shit is uncomfortable. Seeing some strung-out junkie piss himself on a bus arouses disgust.
If you can't acknowledge that the dregs of society are in fact viscerally repulsive, then tolerating them is no sign of virtue. Of course you tolerate them. They're fine, apparently!
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
3yr ago
What do you think makes Black Americans so much more problematic than Malays?
Their DNA.
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
3yr ago
Wow, Exalted references in the wild. Unexpected.
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
3yr ago
((And... uh, I like buff naked werewolf dudes. A lot. But that 5GB gets pretty samey pretty quick.))
Curse you, furries. Because of you every time I try to talk to someone about White Wolf's Werewolf RPGs I see the light in their eyes dim as they think it's a furry thing. Why must the coolest splat also be the one the furries love :(
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
3yr ago
Singapore's not diverse at all -- there's hardly any blacks or hispanics.
Minotaur
Si vis pacem, fac bellum
3yr ago
The one in which people actively reject your way of thinking?
No one rejects it. They reject bluntness, and couch it in layers of preening obfuscation. The rule of law is innately rule by violence. Society cheers when the "right people" get hurt for the "right reasons". They make calls for direct action to stop hate. Etc., etc.
Calling them evil is a strategy. It is an appeal to them that they risk violating a direr imperative. Words can and have ended fights before they start.
People don't kill because it's really hard to hide a corpse and life in prison sucks. It's not being evil that dissuades people, it's being punished.
If you think you hold the perfect morality and you think people cannot be convinced of another's morality except by physical might, then what's the point of even being on this site? You responded to others that you hold it as moral for people closer to you via your circles to exploit those farther away. Why would you even bother saying this if you think people cannot change their morals via words?
This is a discussion forum. I am having discussions. I'm not sure why this is so difficult for you to reckon with, but it's really, truly not complicated. It is a recreational social activity.
I don't think about them at all.
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