aqouta
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aqouta
11hr ago
Israel is violently hated by every single one of its regional neighbours that isn't ruled by an Israeli client regime.
Maybe I'm the streets in a kind of lab Arab patriotism sense, but the surrounding leaders would probably breath a sigh of relief to be rid of hamas as a hub for the Islamic brotherhood. Your whole post hinges on a kind of pan Arab support that just doesn't seem to exist.
Just look at what Israel has done in the region. When you blow up a bunch of children's hands with your cool pager stunt, do you think those children are going to grow up and be strong supporters of your government?
I think it would be hard to estimate what percentage of the Arab world ultimately would support VS oppose attacks on hezbollah. Certainly the coming Syrian regime will have no love lost for them backing Nashar. They've been behind the killing of hundred of thousands of Arabs themselves, does that not create martyrs against them or does only Israel make its enemies stronger when it kills them? Their number one supporter isn't even Arab, it's Iran and Iran is responsible for more Arab deaths than Israel by a very wide margin.
Of course, that's leaving aside the geopolitical aspects - Israel is an outpost of the US empire, an empire which is currently failing and losing its ability to exert control over the rest of the world. Why would China and Russia, when given the chance, not turn Israel into a gigantic blood-and-treasure hole for the US empire (more than it already is) at the cost of giving the arabs a bunch of weapons?
Is Israel somehow not being sent food and weapon shipments from the US while also being drained financially to do so?
I imagine that as long as they weren't active participants in ethnic cleansing or had a demonstrated record of opposition to it (like those who refused to join the IDF) they'd be welcomed with open arms. But you are right - a lot of them wouldn't be accepted as refugees, especially those who enthusiastically supported crimes against humanity or shot children for trying to retrieve the corpses of their family members. This would be a big problem, and I'm honestly not sure there's a happy outcome for anybody involved. The organisations that would be the Nazi-hunters of this future are making lists and recording details right now, like the Hind Rajab foundation - which is already responsible for many nations being incredibly unwelcome to IDF soldiers.
OK yes, so the plan is that the Israelis are getting genocide one way or the other, got it. Yeah, I gotta be honest, I think almost all of them are going to hunker down in their nuclear state and play North Korea "we have the bomb and nothing left to lose" politics and probably come out of it fine. North Korea even gets food aid for its trouble.
But then really I think your whole premise is just flawed in thinking being a pariah state means you can trade for weapons and supplies. Israel managed to get enough weapons to win the six days war by trading with post soviet nations without any super power support. It's not like other genocidal nations struggle to find trading partners, turkey is in nato, Russia even finds trading partners in Europe as it invades one of their neighbors. Half the middle Eastern nations have committed at least an ethnic cleansing.
aqouta
22hr ago
Ah I see, then @FirmWeird, no I just read almost every post
aqouta
22hr ago
I think the equilibrium would be found where the things being said by the populist side would be so obviously stupid and ruinous that even the median voting American would be like "uh, I dunno, all the state run raw milk distribution centers are losing money, do we really want to nationalize coffee shops?"
aqouta
22hr ago
Have you been reading the thread or did you just come in midway because you got asked to moderate a post?
I am not a moderator.
This conversation was taking place in a hypothetical future where Israel is cut off from international trade and aid due to their genocide of the Palestinians - there wouldn't be any Gazans left to celebrate. We're discussing a worst case scenario, because my original point was that committing acts of genocide and ethnic cleansing is a terrible idea for Israel because it doesn't have the geography or natural resources in order to survive a future where it has lost the support of the US and other western allies.
Oh, I had not realized you meant genocide for real and not the way it's usually used in relation to Israel to describe a situation where populations don't actually ever decrease. This is often the problem with this expansion of terms. Although this is confusing because before you've alluded to Israel still being at war with some entity as their military protectionism being cut off was stated as some important thing. Is the west bank still in its current formation after this or are we imagining every Palestinian was genocided? Because it doesn't really seem lie any of Israel's other neighbors are exactly excited to get into a conflict with her. Are we proposing that like Arabs are blood lusted for the destruction of Israel like in those threads on super hero power scaling?
Frothing genocide? I'm not proposing any kind of genocide at all - I'm saying that Israel would fall apart if it became a pariah state, which is very different.
You're proposing the rest of the world commit a genocide by your own definition of blockading food imports. Or do you think what Israel is accused of doing doesn't count?
Moreover, as mentioned previously, a lot of the Israelis would simply just leave because grinding poverty in the desert is not a particularly tempting option when you have a passport that will take you to the first world
Up to half, almost certainly much fewer, could leave to the EU, although it's a weird kind of pariah state that you'd blockade food imports to but issue their citizens citizenship. but why would anyone accept refugees from this pariah state?
Also, you seem remarkably hostile here - I'm not trying to score points, but it seems like you're getting unreasonably angry about this topic.
I'm not angry really. Maybe I've misread you but this all pattern matches to a frustrating trope of implying that those jews should just fuck back off to Europe which is a microcosm of a kind of third worldist flavored grievance politic that I find incredibly distasteful. Wakanda wish casting.
aqouta
23hr ago
Just give the money to everyone! The trump stimmy checks were the right idea
The Trump Stimmy checks were in fact not universal.
aqouta
1d ago
Sanders is a populist grievance mongerer similar to Trump so it's not too surprising there is across appeal. I have a theory that's been kicking around in my head for a bit that the parties seem to be realigning as a low information populist Republican party and an establishment technocratic Democrat party. People willing to sling conspiracy theories about how the jews, elites, billionaires or whomever with very little actual support have long been able to garner some support but in the social media age now that the lowest common denominator is able to have their voices amplified it seems inevitable that this is catered to. I may be coping in my hope that only one party falls to this type of rhetoric.
aqouta
1d ago
Are all the Gazans also getting sentenced to death in the Hague for supporting their own genocidal government that commits war crimes in this fantasy of yours? Maybe we could take out two birds with one stone and just glass the whole region to satisfy your bloodlust.
This isn't actually a statistic that's relevant at all by itself. If you're the descendant of someone from an EU country, you're able to get an EU passport
Less than half the jews in Israel are even European descendent. So your frothing genocide is still killing ~5 million people even assuming every European descendended jew is eligible.
ethnostate
Ah yes, the first ethnostste in the middle east. Curious that an ethnic state would have 20% of its population be Arab. What level of diversity do you expect to be present in the territory after you finish your retributive genocide?
aqouta
1d ago
The world was willing to execute Nazis after the holocaust even though their crime was executing jews. Any Israelis who did not voluntarily leave the country and renounce Zionism would be regarded the same as the nazis who didn't give up after the war was los
This is a plain fantasy, has the world decided that everyone involved in October 8th should be executed in the Hague or that the population they ruled over should be starved to death as a result? Your entire premise defeats itself, it's ridiculous. A world that would turn on Israel for imposing these conditions would not impose these conditions on Israel lest it must turn on itself.
they're actively committed to the project and voluntarily taking on responsibility for what Zionism did.
Somewhere north of 70% of Israelis were born in Israel. I know there is a false meme that the whole population are recent European immigrants but it's simply not true. There is no where for them to go any more than there is for the Palestinians.
aqouta
1d ago
I vaguely think the parties are going to realign as populist and establishment and then rapidly collapse when it becomes clear that these lowest common denominator populist solutions to problems don't work and the establishment gets blamed for being wreckers.
aqouta
1d ago
This is actually not true. There are real limits to the amount of food that can be imported to Israel due to their security situation - and remember that in this case we're talking about an Israel several years into the future from now, where their reputation has been torched and nobody is willing to support or trade with them. No more US money to Egypt and the other nations around them means no more land trade. The US giving up (well more than they have already) at dealing with the houthis means there's no more shipping, either. How does Israel import the materiel and energy required to exist without US support? This is a serious logistical question, and as far as I can tell the answer is that there's no way for them to do so once the US teat is removed.
If you are right and all this comes to pass then at worst they're in the state the Palestinians are in and the Palestinians get food. You even support their own genocidal government and oppose them not being given food aid. You can't actually think the world would be willing to starve Israelis to death for the crime of starving Palestinians.
aqouta
2d ago
The design of this particular rally is that you're meant to debate him so his ideological opposition had some grounds to attend.
aqouta
2d ago
There are some really obvious selection effects going on at a political rally.
aqouta
3d ago
All the Irish had to do was make it infeasible to continue occupying Ireland.
What exactly do you think the stable equilibrium in Palestine that is analogous to this looks like? Please make sure it's one the Palestinian people themselves would accept.
aqouta
5d ago
This view seems very suspiciously convenient to justify the thing you wanted to do for other reasons.
aqouta
5d ago
If such naked hypocrisy is not convincing to our fellow citizens then democracy is impossible and I'm not ready to give that up.
aqouta
5d ago
They're not so much contradictory as in conflict. all values held are naturally in conflict whenever a trade off is introduced.
aqouta
5d ago
It's important to note on the prayer thing that it was called for literally seconds after they had just finished a moment of silence for Kirk. The whole thing was performative, they could have prayed during the moment of silence if they wanted to. I half expect if the prayer motion went through they'd then call for a brief poem in his honor and escalated until someone objected so they could get this type of headline.
aqouta
5d ago
Again their caucus shouted down an attempt for a moment of prayer. T
They had just had a moment of silence and the moment of prayer was a kind of silly suggestion that was opposed. No one opposed the moment of silence.
aqouta
6d ago
username attached to a lot of commentary about woke-era pressure campaigns, or George Floyd, as they were happening. Care to refresh it?
My username was and I endorse their position in opposition to this new wave of cancelations.
aqouta
6d ago
This whole attempt to lionize Kirk after his death has been extremely black pulling, as a leftist.
Rather than litigate his actual statements as other are doing, isn't this a good game theoretical move? Reducing the value of assassination as a political tool by amplifying the status of the message meant to be silenced seems like a good feature.
I'm not implying to owe anyone anything. I'm simply pointing out that sympathy isn't something you owe someone, it's something you feel. So when we talk about whether you feel sympathy for some one we're talking about you and who you are as a person.
When the loud shot rang out across the court yard it scared Charlie's young daughter. She ran to her father for safety as the life drained rapidly from his body. You don't have to change your belief, proscriptions or politics for this reason, in fact I think it would be foolish to. But to not feel some sympathy here implies a blackened heart. I hope for your sake that you have just misunderstood what sympathy is because the alternative is so bleak.
aqouta
6d ago
Sure it is tragic, but it doesn't mean he is owed sympathy. And the lack of that sympathy doesn't make people sociopaths any more than a lack of sympathy for illegal immigrant mothers being pulled from their homes and deported, makes other people not sociopaths.
The concept of being "owed" sympathy is just kind of incoherent to me. You should feel sympathy for someone who finds a bad and undeserved end, who leaves a wife and young daughter behind. Not because they're owed anything but because you are a human who should sympathize with such a person and situation. If you fail to sympathize with this then it's not really about him, it's about you. I think we must enforce the borders and acknowledge that there are sympathetic people that will be harmed because of that. Sympathy doesn't mean you drop everything and do whatever helps the person you're sympathetic to.
aqouta
7d ago
There are a lot of different mutually exclusive factions that make up the trans coalition. You might have transwomen who demand to be considered ontologically categorized the same as natal females support a cisman wearing a dress to queer the gender binary but would strongly object to any insinuation that they were doing basically the same thing. Morphological freedom alone can't explain this conflict, you need additional axioms.
To be sure there are people who call themselves trans who might fully endorse and live by this maximally vague morphological framework, but I'd argue they are a vast minority, especially among vocal activists.
aqouta
7d ago
One of the lessons in the fable about the Sword of Damocles is about living by the ramifications of your own positions.
There's often this kind of misunderstanding of risk at the heart of internet disagreements. He was obviously willing to live with the ramifications of his positions, some negligible risk of dying by gun violence. That is discharged already just by him going about day to day in a world with higher than counterfactual risk of gun violence. This doesn't at all mean him pulling the short straw and the risk coming due isn't tragic as he acknowledged in his comment.
Sure thing, by the way we taxed the billionaires which didn't turn out to be enough so we've been printing a lot of money, so your double espresso extra tallow shot is going to be $47
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