ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
No bio...
User ID: 626
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1hr ago
I don't see how it matters. Even if they did, the shooting was a mistake, and even if they didn't, the protests were still designed to cause chaos, and increased the chances of a situation like that.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1hr ago
I don't see it as equivocation, but as drawing a distinction. He also didn't say "necessitated his killing", but precisely what you said at the end - his behavior drastically increased the chances of "a bad outcome".
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
2hr ago
many here may think deserve applies in the traditional sense, but I think at minimum we see "deserve" here in the sense of "engaged in stupid avoidable behavior that necessitated the response or failing that represents a lifestyle that drastically increases the likelihood of a bad outcome."
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
2hr ago
I'm arguing those things
And how much pushback are you getting?
Didn't Ashlel say he's one (though I suppose it's been a while since he posted here)? And I thought Dean wasn't one from any country.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
2hr ago
I generally require malice
I don't. There aren't a lot of mustache-twirling villains in real life, and it doesn't take a lot of creativity to come up with a story where you're the good guy, actually.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
2hr ago
I'm having some trouble discerning what exactly it is you are arguing for here.
That every single time there was major culture war drama trying to frame the red tribe as authoritarian istophobes, it was based on a lie. That people shouldn't jump in with massive finger-wagging screeds because we don't uncritically accept the latest Blue narrative about fascists killing people. In fact, given the track record, any such narrative should be dismissed by default, and only accepted when overwhelming evidence is presented.
That there should be no negative consequences for the ICE officers who killed him? That it is a good thing that he died?
No one on the Blue side is arguing merely "there should be some negative consequences for thr officers that killed him", or "it's bad that he died", and no one on the Red side argued the opposite, so I have no idea how these questions are relevant.
However antisocial or stupid he was seems irrelevant to the immediate charge which got so many people (including, seemingly, ones who are otherwise sympathetic to ICE and police shootings) riled up about the case
If it was irrelevant people wouldn't expand so much energy on claims about "peaceful protesters" "legally observing", and "cowering in their homes".
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
2hr ago
Please quote the part where he says, or implies, "should".
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
3hr ago
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
4hr ago
The analogy isn't perfect
I'll say. Unless something changed since I followed these fine folk, these fights are mutual combat. There's not much to coordinate when both sides just want to pommel each other for shits and giggles.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
6hr ago
We checked and you'd need to take my word.
Hold on there, just how many Australian state operatives are hanging out over here?
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
6hr ago
The overwhelming majority most of them are that way due to some form of a dysfunction, or at best, because they have dependents to take care of. They're not going to be managing dispatches and databases.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
6hr ago
The dude was clearly looking for trouble, but I don't think it changes much about the shoot being justified.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
7hr ago
The Baltic states would be a more obvious choice for another land grab, and I think even with the US they're seen by NATO as indefensible.
Poland has more people and is one of the few European countries that tries to take it's own defense seriously, so probably it could hold out as well as Ukraine. That said, Ukrainians are holding out as well as they do in large part due to American arms, and Poland depleted a lot of their own supplies helping Ukraine. I'm not following the topic that closely, but every time a hypothetical war with Russia is brought up, the assumptions of how it would go for them seem pretty grim (though maybe I'm recalling some worst case, total war, scenario).
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
12hr ago
So I disagree with the implication that you need shadowy influencers teaching this behaviour.
What do you mean, those are the shadowy influencers teaching this behavior!
These guys weren't exactly ex-NKVD assets or anything. Just people who had been going to protests for 20 years and had an idea of how to disrupt police operations for these events.
a) Normal people don't have time to do this shit for 20 years. They are almost certainly sponsored by someone top-down.
b) If they were ex-NKVD, how would you know?
Unless someone was holding on to these incidents being organic, rather than engineered by the protest organizers, I don't see how it changes much. They still made a mistake in the chaos of the situation.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
14hr ago
The "somehow" here being her formal application for a Darwin Award. Her shooting was, if anything, more justified than Pretti's.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1d ago
It's annoying to have to endure pearl harbor and then go island by island against a fanatical enemy.
If it's merely annoying, it's not a big deal.
I find your position puzzling
Same. You start off with things like "the alliance is doing less and less for us" and "because it‘s not like we‘d fall to russian conquest if you just leave ; post WWII yes, but the wolf isn‘t at the door anymore. A chihuaha perhaps, or a wounded pygmy bear", only for it to turn out that American arms are absolutely necessary for your defense plan.
you describe eurocrats as detached from reality but agree with their outdated view of Russian military power?
My view stems not so much from Russian military strength, as much as European military weakness. Something European leaders were warned about, but chose not to act on - hence "detached from reality".
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1d ago
I wasn't using rhetorical flourishes.
I was talking about Nybbler.
I was using words to communicate things that I actually believe.
You were also paraphrasing his argument in a way that was no longer faithful to what he actually said.
You read my statement and your conclusion is that I believe "going after the employers is the best and only reasonable way to do anything about illegal immigration and, as a result, going directly after illegal immigrants is cruel and should be verboten."
Is that correct?
No, I read the Nybbler's statement as an accurate paraphrase of argument to be exaggerated but accurate portrayal of the arguments being made here. Your personal opinions on the topic don't enter into the conversation. This is just about your claim that Nybbler's statement is a strawman.
Cancelling our alliance makes the US neutral, not an enemy. Why wouldn't they sell?
Neutrality means they can do whatever they want on a whim. Maybe they decide to keep their weapons because they anticipate scuffle with China, or maybe they decide to sell to both Russia and Europe, because why the hell, not? Plenty of neutral countries did that sort of thing.
Either way, it's ridiculous to grandstand about how useless the alliance is, and how Russia is a chihuahua, only for it to turn out it all rests on their willingness to supply Europe with weapons
- They can be a nuclear threat, without being an invasion threat - like North Korea to Japan.
- Just because they are weak and their loss in a war inevitable, doesn't mean they won't attack
I don't think anyone was talking about a nuclear threat, and if they were a chihuahua, no one would be worried about scenario 2. You could just repeal them with minimal losses.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1d ago
Rhetorical flourishes don't really change the meaning. The way you changed the terminology was much worse in that regard.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1d ago
I really do believe there would be fewer and smaller protests if this wasn’t treated as a referendum on Donald Trump.
That's kind of my point. It's not about the specific way immigration is handled it's about progressives' rival being in power. You can't turn immigration enforcement into something routine, if there's a dedicated group of activists reserving the right to freak out when something is a referendum on Donald Trump.
I also doubt it's really about Trump in particular. Every Republican I recall was painted as Hitler. Bush, Romney... I remember "Pence is worse than Trump articles" when he was VP, and there are similar ones about Vance now , we also had some about DeSantis during the primaries. This is just thr heckler's veto.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1d ago
The other posts you quoted seem to be generally agreeing with my own personal position, which is that immigration laws should be enforced, but the administration is unserious about really doing that because they are more interested in setting up confrontations on the streets than applying any pressure at all on the businesses who continue to incentivize illegal immigration.
But this is the claim you were responding to:
This sudden received indisputable wisdom that going after the employers is the best and only reasonable way to do anything about illegal immigration and, as a result, going directly after illegal immmigrants is cruel and should be verboten is not credible.
Which is perfectly consistent with what you're saying now. Notice that you changed "going directly after illegal immigrants" to "immigration laws should be enforced".
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
2d ago
Fined, probably. Arrested, if they start blocking traffic. Sure, why not?
I mostly do it from the new queue, and it does occasionally happen that I step on a rake this way. Oops.
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