cjet79
Anarcho Capitalist on moral grounds
Libertarian Minarchist on economic grounds
User ID: 124
cjet79
4mo ago
abandoning the legal fiction of "fleeing from violence" that the asylum seekers and traditional media use to justify the moral imperative of letting in economic migrants.
The "fleeing from violence" might have a legal definition, but I think most migrants are probably doing some form of fleeing from violence all the time. I think it is also strange that nationalists have glomed onto this as if it is some sort of mass lie.
There are different levels and types of "violence" and "fleeing". Violence can have terrible impacts on the economic conditions of an area, the stores are getting robbed or burned down, people's homes are being invaded, death is common enough that long-term self-improvement investments like education are a bad investment, etc etc. This can even describe some American cities. Imagine a young boy from that area, he keeps his head down, manages to avoid getting caught up with any gangs, and leaves as soon as he can afford a bus ticket out. He finds a job in another prospering city, and he sometimes sends some money back to his parents. He is an "economic migrant", but he was also most certainly fleeing violence.
Is something about that story unbelievable for some reason? Why the extreme levels of doubt? Don't you realize that people are fleeing American inner cities for the same reasons?
cjet79
7mo ago
This is antagonistic. You've had 6 previous warnings for bad behavior. And two of those were just last month for this exact kind of low effort antagonistic posting:
https://www.themotte.org/post/621/culture-war-roundup-for-the-week/128997?context=8#context https://www.themotte.org/post/640/culture-war-roundup-for-the-week/132787?context=8#context
3-day ban.
cjet79
11mo ago
This is too antagonistic, you've had two warnings in the past for this same thing. 3 day ban.
cjet79
2mo ago
Can you conceive a scenario where unrestricted immigration could lead to severe problems?
Yes, I can also conceive and witness problems caused by unregulated relationships. Does it change my position? Not really an inch on either issue.
cjet79
3mo ago
This comment was an antagonistic and low effort reply. Warning you not to do this.
cjet79
9mo ago
Please don't drop bare links as a top level post. If you have something to say about a news story then say that in the top comment. If not, then leave the news story alone and give someone else the chance to post an interesting top level comment on the story.
This is your first offense, so just a warning for now.
cjet79
9mo ago
It is too much to ask if those discussions crowd out everything else.
Just on a practical level if white nationalist talk floods the forum, it will cease to be an interesting forum to non-white nationalists.
We are not a news aggregator. We are a discussion site. If you don't really want to discuss something and just want to share news, then you are in the wrong place.
If someone else does want to discuss it and is willing to write an effort post, then the low effort post exhausts people's interest in the topic and lowers the reward for making an effort.
Edit also the first response to this post was:
Oh well, another opportunity for an effortpost lost.
Which I think implies that /u/daseindustriesltd would have done a longer post if the topic had been left untouched for longer.
This is not a theoretical crowding out, it happened.
cjet79
2mo ago
I suppose historic attitudes on this were different, it's odd that has become one of the holdouts on government intervention.
And I don't feel that community regulation is equivalent to government regulation.
cjet79
3mo ago
Nowadays, Trump could probably murder someone on live TV and a majority of the Republican voters would say he didn't do it. That's basically what the election loss denialism came down to. Why let evidence get in the way of vibes and dunking on the outgroup!
This is a bit too boo-outgroup.
cjet79
7mo ago
It would have been much better, and I probably wouldn't have posted a mod warning at all.
Pithyness is the bigger sin. We do tone police around here. The comment as you wrote it would allow a democrat to come in here and push back. The comment as it was originally written would be much more likely to start a flame war.
cjet79
9mo ago
What if I am trying to assess groups?
Groups are composed of individuals. And it is very unclear what signals you are supposed to take from a racially non-homogenous group. Clothing, disposition, gender, current activity, and age all seem like better stereotyping options.
Am I supposed to treat a group of Asian males hanging out up ahead the same as I would treat a group of black males?
I'd say you shouldn't really bother assessing the race, because a bunch of other characteristics about the group will give you a much better sense. What activity do they seem to be doing? Are they laughing and joking around? Do they seem drunk? Is this an area known to have gangs? Are other people avoiding them? Honestly I tend to avoid any group of drunk young males.
Or, suppose I have successfully taught for years in an all-black school, and have relied heavily on class participation as a pedagogical tool. If I transfer to an all-Asian school, should I not think about changing my pedagogy?
You should always be thinking about your pedagogy. Socio-economic class and general school culture should be learned before you start teaching. Ask other teachers what they do. At no point should you be like "oh they are all of x race, therefore teaching method y will work." If you do that you are probably a terrible teacher.
Or if I am in HR at a school district, and am placing a teacher who tells me his greatest weakness is classroom management, should I not use him for a vacancy at an all-Asian school rather than sending him to an all-black school?
Typically race correlates with things that matter. But it is rarely if ever the actual thing that matters. What if the teacher would be teaching the flunkies, dropouts, and mis-behaving kids at the asian school, and the honors students at the all black school? And what assumptions are you supposed to make if the school has and classroom has a mixed racial makeup like all American schools are mandated to have.
I don't think I'll be litigating any more specific examples. All of your new examples still point to Race being a weak correlate with things that matter. And typically in real world scenarios you have much more access to easier acquire pieces of information, and higher quality sources of information.
cjet79
2mo ago
Normally, yes I like when people flip the script. But the original post had generated a lot of heat already and I was in more of a damage control mode. And OP is not republican, so it wasn't really a flip the script type moment. It was sort of just an opportunity for OP to trash another group as well.
I didn't make it explicit, but yeah if someone did a flip the script and just rewrote the OP from another perspective and posted it top level they might also eat a ban.
We do allow for mistakes here. I don't think the OP was originally intending to be as antagonistic as some of their language suggests, they just weren't being careful. Once moderators have come by and said "hey you messed up and this is too antagonistic" it is not ok for someone to then pull a "flip the script" move. Because its basically flaunting the rules and the enforcement of those rules.
cjet79
2mo ago
I get that many people want to make race the way to distinguish between in-group and out-group. But that just isn't how it is for me.
My closest group of friends in college consisted of an Indian Guy 2nd Gen immigrant (libertarian), Spanish guy 2nd Gen immigrant (libertarian), Jewish guy with one grandparent that escaped the holocaust (libertarian), Danish Guy 2nd Gen immigrant (liberal/prog), and a Brazilian guy of European descent 1st Gen immigrant (libertarian). I might have been the token WASP of the group.
Its not clear to me how demographic controls would have "saved" me.
I sympathize with actual conservatives or Ron Paul style libertarians there but you kind of are asking to be dominated by the more authoritarian left due to what you prioritize.
This really feels like it needs more elaboration.
cjet79
2mo ago
I believe most people share a value for wealth and money. Or at least it is a fungible thing that can be converted into other values. That is why the stock market works and publicly traded companies exist. Until DEI crap came along most of them have been legally obligated to pursue money and profit as a singular value, because that is one thing everyone can agree on.
Certain values matter way more than others. I think there are only some minimum values of non-interference that I need to live around others, and everything beyond that is just icing on the cake.
cjet79
2mo ago
Practical concerns make me more in favor of open immigration, not less in favor. The largest spending item on the federal budget is not welfare, its social security. And Social Security is a pyramid scheme paid for by young. Immigrants tend to be young and looking for work. "economic migrants" is for some reason a dirty word, when without them the federal government would be going insolvent much sooner. One of the largest forms of welfare currently and being pushed by progressives and liberals is free/cheap medical care. The people most in need of medical care are often old, so the native population, not immigrants.
Those two effects alone end up swamping all other fiscal concerns.
There is also good empirical work that voter support for welfare states tends to fall with racial and ethnic diversity. Progressives have realized this and torn out their hair in frustration over all the racism. I see the result and become far less concerned about immigration.
cjet79
2mo ago
I don't feel that community regulation is equivalent to government regulation.
On the basis of distance from you, or the ability to send you to prison, or something else?
I think you can't have neither, and at worst you'll have both. And they do have many different characteristics.
Your post talks about disliking having your friends chosen for you by your parents and goes on to discuss the government, so I assumed you saw them both as being somewhat similar.
I made the comparison mostly to give some sense to people of how it feels. I picked the most relatable experience I could think of. Not the most similar comparison.
Could you add more detail? Or point to a post where you’ve discussed this?
Detail on what specifically?
cjet79
5mo ago
It seemed to generate plenty of speculation, not sure I'd say it generated lots of "discussion" aside from some people digging up the past allegations of abuse from his sister.
@greyenlightenment had a better post that could have been a top level post.
This is not a problem, and certainly is not an example of the problem you’re trying to solve with the length requirements.
There are not length requirements. A certain length of post is a necessary but not sufficient pass of the threshold.
My recommended structure for a top level post:
- Context (minimal needed, use it as a jumping off point).
- Observations about the context that build up to the third thing.
- Your viewpoint. Could be spicy, could be not. Should be built off of the observations. It will hopefully be interesting to the other people as a thing they can challenge and discuss.
cjet79
5mo ago
You had three warnings last month, and one of them was specifically for posting "low-effort boo-light memes".
https://www.themotte.org/post/687/culture-war-roundup-for-the-week/143928?context=8#context
You are doing it again. The warning didn't stick apparently.
3 day ban for now, please try and lurk some more and get a sense of the expected level of engagement and participation.
cjet79
6mo ago
My first point in the list is how you don't really need that much effort to meet the minimum standards. If two paragraphs is hard for you to write, what are you doing here? It took you what, 5-10 minutes to write this response to me, and its double the length you need.
The longer posts have happened organically.
The first criticism was not criticism of the motte or discussion. It was a criticism that someone would get disappointed that someone preempted their post.
They are still shitting on quality posters. I'd rather keep the quality posters happy rather than this user.
With respect to your second point, scope (like quality) is orthogonal to length. What I think we want is insight; not length.
And the top level post provided no insight either. Shared a link story, asked some basic questions, and basically said "discuss". Had it done so, or attempted to do so I might not have banned.
I don't think my minimum level standard for a top level post is very high. People seem to come out of the woodwork every time this comes up acting like I'm asking them to write a novel. I'm not. Just start the discussion, put some level of thinking and effort into your post. If it looks like you tried and fell short I'll probably only provide a warning. The original poster did not try at all. And there is a group of users that constantly want to resurrect the bare links thread, so they post what they think is just past the line on acceptable. Sometimes I am going to drop bans for this. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
cjet79
7mo ago
As a moderator I'm typically trying to sort people into three buckets:
- Worthless contributor, actively negative, pisses people off, very unlikely to improve.
- Net neutral. Upsets some, but others like them around. Can maybe improve.
- Quality poster. Follows the rules, adds to discussion, says interesting things, doesn't need to improve.
People in group 1 we generally want to ban. If you are going to self label yourself into that category, then no amount of following the strict letter of the rules will save you. We have a wildcard rule for a reason.
I'm not a lawyer, and certainly not a rules lawyer. If we thought it would be useful we'd probably only have the wildcard rule. In some sense the rules don't matter. They are guidelines for behavior.
Did they violate an explicit guideline? No. Did they violate the only guideline that really matters? Yes. Deleting their comment was an improvement over leaving it up. But they are letting me know what kind of contributor they are. And I don't see any reason to hobble myself in figuring out which bucket users fall into.
None of the stories here imply violence as a solution. It was messing me up. It was ineffective on my brother. And the solution to the parent's friend kid was ultimately separation. The spanking merely brought about that separation, its unclear if the spanking would have worked long term.
But yes, I agree some people need violence to stay in line. Nothing else will really work. They have short time horizons, low to no empathy, or some form of psychopathy. And there are even some people where I think even extreme violence will not work.
Me? I'm not that smart. I like the work of David and Pattri Friedman on these types of problems. I also think the impulse to structure societies into some perfect form is a statist impulse, and something I try to avoid. I don't know if there is a perfect solution. I do feel pretty certain that the current solution is not very good for a multitude of reasons. And those reasons are my entire belief set and political experience for the last two decades, so not a short list or something I've not thought about a lot. It just feels too long to go into here.
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