traveller
1yr ago
Therefore your narrow reliance on Soviet-provided data on the number of Jews in the Soviet Union post-war is putting far too much weight on an unreliable source.
Again: that is relying on reports from actual people living in Poland. Before Germans invaded Jews were everywhere, after they were not there. Unlike with say expulsion of Germans we have no records of this people arriving anywhere.
Personally, I would prefer Russia to be a normal country and give up imperial ambitions. Or like Germany switch to economical and bureaucratic meddling with some amount of culture warring, but with economy project that is overall beneficial and culture warring that is far less problematic than what say Third Reich was doing.
So I would prefer Russia to be peaceful with their army not murdering 100 000+ people across Ukraine.
But if they are invading countries with mine in the queue? Then well, I will celebrate Russian soldiers horribly dying, support funding lethal aid until project of rebuilding imperial Russia will go away. I funded about 4 suicide drones directly[1], my country already send 230+ tanks and I hope for more.
I am not going to deny that Russian soldiers are human or pretend that it is fine, but given alternatives I hope that Russian army will go back. In body bags if needed.
[1]And yes, I am fine with fact that I substantially contributed to some deaths of Russian soldiers. That was expected effected, though goal was not "murder as many Russians as possible" - goal is to get rid of Russian threat and get them to abandon Imperial Russia project. And I am willing to put substantial resources to block respawning USSR.
traveller
1yr ago
Does the idea that disarmament, mutually agreed restraint and maintenance of norms are positive-sum not pop up in those discussions at all?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum has indicated that it works poorly with Russia.
after Russia pulled back
After Russia was kicked out of areas it occupied/controlled by force. Large part of that conquests was result of alliance with Third Reich and Hitler.
the US expanding right into Eastern Europe
They were invited by nearly everyone for obvious reasons.
traveller
1yr ago
Those deals didn't specify that they had to implement mass immigration
And? Note that some fairly minor countries like Poland decided that they prefer to not get it and are not "more or less blockaded" by USA.
UK Brexited over immigration among over things and I do not remember it being "more or less blockaded" by USA.
and end up getting sanctioned by the EU
How that connects to "the US expanding right into Eastern Europe"? Unless you have overly rose image of USA competence and argues that EU is its puppet without any power.
traveller
1yr ago
And I suspect that the best thing that homolobby can do for itself in Ukraine is to play on repeat Putin complaining about homolobby and satanist nazi jewish gay Ukrainians.
traveller
1yr ago
Well, if it's so simple, why not have another crack at Leningrad? Why not send whole brigades, kit and all, to fight in Ukraine?
Most European countries are rich and cowardly and currently at low risk, to the first approximation. And Ukraine's limits are equipment, not soldiers anyway.
So sending equipment is relatively cheap, enough for Ukrainians and enough to harm Russian imperialism long term.
Europe will send F16 and 400 modern MBT before sending soldiers.
traveller
1yr ago
Polands economical miracle
this sounds a bit funny for Pole given that we are word-class at complaining and doomposting :)
traveller
1yr ago
Applying to join NATO doesn't automatically mean membership.
Well, yes. As can be seen from case of Ukraine.
And Ukraine also demonstrates how it ends if you fail to run away from Russian bear quickly enough.
traveller
1yr ago
explicitly describe the "final solution" as the evacuation of the Jews to the East
Even if you interpret it in painfully positive way it still has explicitly (1) A majority of people will not survive this (2) The survivors will have to be "treated" as not to serve as a "gamete" for the reconstruction of European Judaism (3) Mixed children will, with some exceptions, be expelled, forced into "evacuation", or sterilised.
Calling it evacuation is extremely misleading and you know it. I bet that you would be really unhappy if you and your family would be "evacuated" in this way.
traveller
1yr ago
now give also statistics about how much space there was per person and how long you needed to wait for a home or flat
entirely owe their existence to Hitler's legacy
That is blatantly false, for multiple reasons. Dropping "entirely" would help a bit but still would be untrue.
And I am not calling for rolling back anything communist adjacent - I would not support undoing electrification of many rural areas of Poland on basis "it happened under communism". And I am not going to kill myself because I was born during communist rule. Or deconstruct motorways where construction started under Hitler.
But i would support undoing things done by Third Reich and USSR regimes that were unwanted.
Do you still hold their independence to be legitimate?
Yes.
You also know that Poland signed a nonaggression pact with the Third Reich, and took part in the partition of Czechoslovakia, don't you?
Yes. BTW, Trans-Olza is nowadays in Czechia.
traveller
1yr ago
But i would support undoing things done by
whooops!
It was supposed to be "But i would support undoing things done by(...)"
traveller
1yr ago
reports of Russians abusing or executing PoWs so far - especially after the chaos of the first few days - are very thin on the ground
Note that Ukraine allowed contact of independent organisation with PoW held by them, Russia failed to do so.
See also how people released by Russia looks like.
traveller
1yr ago
No idea how far Crimea should be rolled back but accepting Russian invasion is one of options.
traveller
1yr ago
What was the window of opportunity for Ukraine to run away, in your view?
Directly after fall of communism and some time later. Plenty of stuff was stolen during that time in Poland but Ukraine went far further and economical growth was anaemic later.
The made some steps since 2014 but it was too late to avoid Russian invasion and may be also too late to avoid conquest by Russia.
traveller
1yr ago
Also, if you have reputation of treating PoW decently then enemy is more likely to surrender than make doomed last stands.
In addition war crimes are bad also to people doing them and people around and is making harder to have stable sane society after war if typical soldier in your army is a torturer and rapist and whoever else.
traveller
1yr ago
Though the same group proves that PoWs were treated awfully by Russia.
So apparently really bad treatment is happening, though without routine murder of surrendering Ukrainians. Always nice to be passing some standards.
traveller
1yr ago
Russia has reasons to perceive expansion as aggression
I reject this part.
Though it would be accurate to treat it as a threat on Russian imperialism and pre-empting USSR 2.0. That is exactly why Poland and other joined NATO and Ukraine wanted to join.
Russia is not entitled to having an imperial sphere of influence.
traveller
1yr ago
Secondly, the loss of buffer states creates huge opportunities for proxy wars.
It seems to me that starting proxy war against NATO is a poor way to avoid proxy wars against NATO.
traveller
1yr ago
Why would I address it when you aren't even trying to defend mainstream historiography?
So you are agreeing that Germans murdered millions of Jews, just not with gas chambers?
traveller
1yr ago
Documents show that these workers were very important for the war effort
Because Germans were famous for not-terrible-treatment of conquered areas where everyone had first-hand experience of USSR.
Oh wait, they were so terrible that people as result initially welcomed USSR as liberators (despite that things then went almost as bad as "liberation" by Third Reich). And put plenty of effort into sabotaging German war effort to help USSR.
Germans had hilariously poor treatment of potential recruits and workers, they actually believed that they as subhumans and failed to even pretend otherwise.
traveller
1yr ago
If I get infected, I'm getting a few particles as part of a spray.
no, cells in your body are hijacked to produce endless copies of virus
if you are infected it is not going to be "few particles"
traveller
1yr ago
Realistically, I was in the pit because I was terrified, not because I was unmotivated. Without these replacements I likely would have exited stage left.
Maybe but there is also issue of "best alternative".
Lets imagine a future world: you can get generated porn tailored to your interests (lets say without creepy incest titles if you are not into it), you can get extremely tasty food that will not make you fat, you can play excellent games better than anything existing now, better illusion of companionship (GPT-189 as a girlfriend/friend/son substitute).
I bet that it would be far more attractive than current games/porn/parasocial stuff like Only Fans. And far more people would end there.
Also, we would have less suicides, I guess.
And our world has things in that direction that have not existed 200 years ago or were much less attractive. So for more people it may be more attractive - or even a truly better alternative!
Transit? Between what? Somehow people were ending in camps and disappearing there, never heard about again.
And even if we believe all that (and there is no good reason for that), then according to own plans they were expecting that they will be enslaved and most of them will quickly die.
Seriously, starving people to death in concentration camps is not better - in any way - than gas chambers. So even if this specific denial you peddle would be 100% accurate then it would not change much, except historians being even more suspicious.
And your outright "mass murder of Jews never happened" is just absurd. Are you also denying that Germans mass-murdered Gypsies? Poles?
And thanks to RococoBasilica, nice to have confirmation that you were lying or being misleading about "no documents".
More options
Context Copy link