Not to mention, of course, that the Russian command did bungle it.
And also accepted foreign aid. With gems such as
transcript revealed that Putin told the families that Admiral of the Fleet Vladimir Kuroyedov had agreed to accept foreign assistance as soon as it was offered on Wednesday, 16 August, but he was shouted down as soon as he offered this explanation. The family members knew from media reports that foreign assistance had been offered on Monday.
and
Six teams of British and Norwegian divers arrived on Friday, 18 August. (...) When the divers attempted to open the air-control valve, it would not move. Russian experts told the divers that they must open the valve anticlockwise, or they would break it. The divers finally went against the experts' advice and tried turning it clockwise, which worked.
(from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kursk_submarine_disaster )
traveller
2yr ago
russia would make peace.
Yeah, and sign peace promising respecting remaining part of Ukraine. Maybe it should be signed in Budapest and called Budapest Memorandum II ( see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum )
traveller
2yr ago
To put it another way, from the perspective of Russian Naval command, the secrets of the Kursk are arguably worth more than the lives of the crew
That explains nothing or makes it worse, as British and Norwegian assistance was in the end accepted.
traveller
2yr ago
You do not have to even recall the Kursk incident, you could do similarly well investigating sinking of the Moskva cruiser and Black Sea fleet flagship.
not entirely sure how well Moskva report is confirmed and checked, while Kursk situation is 100% clear.
traveller
2yr ago
Thanks, I was unaware of that!
I wanted to respond to both people. Should I respond to one of them and hope that other will coincidentally see the other reply?
traveller
2yr ago
Yes, but I admit that it was one of my immediate thoughts. Maybe because it was depressing and pole is without any context? And in my areas public transport poles are not standalone in the middle but more bundled with other parts of the vehicle?
traveller
2yr ago
Yes, but I admit that it was one of my immediate thoughts. Maybe because it was depressing and pole is without any context? And in my areas public transport poles are not standalone in the middle but more bundled with other parts of the vehicle?
traveller
2yr ago
Thanks for linking, this case is especially atrocious.
I really agree with this comment and I agree also with some extra
I get more of an “all aboard! Next stop: Auschwitz!” vibe.
(...)
It's awful. I can't imagine being a visitor to Toronto and being greeted with this. Like an out-of-place Holocaust Memorial.
(...)
I stand here in the same clothes I wore yesterday, 38 years old, waiting for the same train I take every single day to my minimum wage job. Every aspect of my life is falling apart. I can barely afford my rent. The grocery store is stealing my retirement. And i'm at the edge of a mental breakdown.
But here I am. Facing a wall of depression that is my literal being, funded by own tax dollars. A very interesting piece of "art" indeed.
(...)
This art makes you want to succumb to the dangerously narrow passages near the tracks. We should start a petition to get it taken down. No art at all would be an improvement over this frosted glass suicide note
(...)
That's the subway station most inhabited by tourists. This is what we think represents Toronto. Depression. Death.
(...)
It's so ugly, so depressing, and even with the vaguest of linework, it still manages to be notably misogynist. The most detailed figure is a teenaged girl dancing around a pole, and she's further dehumanized by having her body outlined more sharply than anyone else's, but her face hidden, AND a yucky guy leering at her - who may be racialized as Black, just to be even more offensive. I despise everything about this.
(while last one is matching claims that are usually false here it mostly matches my own initial impression)
traveller
2yr ago
Mary Mallon would have been entirely justified to kill her captors and escape for by the point they imprisoned her in perpetuity they broke the social contract and returned her and themselves to the state of Nature.
I was unfamiliar with that but assuming that following is accurate I do not consider it as straightforward. And if you go "returned her and themselves to the state of Nature" then it anyway justifies using raw power to overpower everyone else anyway - and I do not think that it is in any way better.
Mary Mallon (September 23, 1869 – November 11, 1938), commonly known as Typhoid Mary, was an Irish-born American cook believed to have infected between 51 and 122 people with typhoid fever. The infections caused three confirmed deaths, with unconfirmed estimates of up to 50. She was the first person in the United States identified as an asymptomatic carrier of the pathogenic bacteria Salmonella typhi.[1][2] She persisted in working as a cook and thereby exposed others to the disease. Because of that, she was twice forcibly quarantined by authorities, eventually for the final two decades of her life. Mallon died after a total of nearly 30 years in isolation.[3][4]
(...)
She used fake surnames like Breshof or Brown, and took jobs as a cook against the explicit instructions of health authorities. No agencies that hired servants for upscale families would offer her employment, so for the next five years, she moved to the mass sector. She worked in a number of kitchens in restaurants, hotels, and spa centers. Almost everywhere she worked, there were outbreaks of typhoid.[35] However, she changed jobs frequently, and Soper was unable to find her.[13]
In 1915, Mallon started working at Sloane Hospital for Women in New York City. Soon 25 people were infected, and two died. The head obstetrician, Dr. Edward B. Cragin, called Soper and asked him to help in the investigation. Soper identified Mallon from the servants' verbal descriptions and also by her handwriting.
traveller
2yr ago
Would you slap your sister if she told you she was considering it, because you don't treat her right and she needs some of that self-care mmmh mmmh?
No, because slapping is a poor way to persuade people.
Also, if that would happen then thing went horrifying wrong before and I prefer actions taking far earlier.
traveller
2yr ago
Can you reply to:
-
do you deny that Nazis murdered millions of civilians in areas they occupied
-
are you a neonazi
-
is SS as acronym deliberate
?
Where are all the bodies?
What you claim to happened with people who were transported into for example Auschwitz?
traveller
2yr ago
trivial to cure COVID since day 1
I am going to file it with "cancer is trivially treatable, evil medical companies are suppressing news about herbal remedies"
traveller
2yr ago
You are free to say that but it has no relation to what the "Holocaust" actually is.
and then you quote
The possible final remnant
I think that you found the genocide confirmation that you were looking for?
traveller
2yr ago
It is strange to accuse Revisionists of "moving the goalposts" when you refuse to defend the core elements of the mainstream narrative.
Personally I am not familiar with gas chambers details and I am unwilling to spend 20+ hours on research just to debate with neonazi on the internet on some obscure forum. Sorry SS if you are not a neonazi but I asked you multiple times about that and about origin of your username and you never responded so I assume that you are.
But I am far more certain that Germans murdered millions of people, many of them for being Jews. And that part is much, much easier to defend without spending overly long time to research this things.
So if you deny that Nazis murdered millions of people that is much easier thing to discuss for me, and if you do not deny then you would become more interesting to debate details. If you would deny that Germans forced Jews into ghettos then things would get even more obvious.
traveller
2yr ago
We shouldn’t just blindly accept the government narrative about war, in fact the default is better off being negative.
Europeans should be more scepticals but at least only small minority is failing for much lower quality Russian claims. So it is not a complete failure at least.
traveller
2yr ago
They don't check the color of your cooler either.
? can you explain this one? I am really confused here.
traveller
2yr ago
It is well known that the Germans gave prisoners at Auschwitz the option to either remain in the camp to be liberated by the Soviets or flee west with them. Most prisoners chose to go with the Germans, if you can believe that.
not checking this, but given how "evacuations" were defined by Germans I would be suspicious what will happen with remaining ones. Also, if people there were aware of what awaits people "liberated" by Soviets vs actually liberated, then trying to escape both Third Reich and USSR would be a good idea.
(See German armies trying to escape to Elbe’s shore to not end under USSR rule, with help to substantial numbers of civilians marking a rare case of Wermacht doing something good during WW II)
This is hilariously backwards. Ukranians volunteered for the German War effort at such a rate that Germany had one of the largest foreign volunteer armies in history, composed mostly of slavs and Soviet citizens.
And guess, how many Poles volunteered? And why ratio was so low despite USSR being evil, dangerous and both fact known widely in Poland?
traveller
2yr ago
Realistically, I was in the pit because I was terrified, not because I was unmotivated. Without these replacements I likely would have exited stage left.
Maybe but there is also issue of "best alternative".
Lets imagine a future world: you can get generated porn tailored to your interests (lets say without creepy incest titles if you are not into it), you can get extremely tasty food that will not make you fat, you can play excellent games better than anything existing now, better illusion of companionship (GPT-189 as a girlfriend/friend/son substitute).
I bet that it would be far more attractive than current games/porn/parasocial stuff like Only Fans. And far more people would end there.
Also, we would have less suicides, I guess.
And our world has things in that direction that have not existed 200 years ago or were much less attractive. So for more people it may be more attractive - or even a truly better alternative!
traveller
2yr ago
If I get infected, I'm getting a few particles as part of a spray.
no, cells in your body are hijacked to produce endless copies of virus
if you are infected it is not going to be "few particles"
traveller
2yr ago
Documents show that these workers were very important for the war effort
Because Germans were famous for not-terrible-treatment of conquered areas where everyone had first-hand experience of USSR.
Oh wait, they were so terrible that people as result initially welcomed USSR as liberators (despite that things then went almost as bad as "liberation" by Third Reich). And put plenty of effort into sabotaging German war effort to help USSR.
Germans had hilariously poor treatment of potential recruits and workers, they actually believed that they as subhumans and failed to even pretend otherwise.
With their handling hindsight was not needed.
(...)
(...)
(everyone was dead on 12 August, some sailors survived about 6 hours )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kursk_submarine_disaster
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