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I think the most disturbing type of argument around Ukraine is the one that pretends to be doing it "for their own good". Like "Why don't you want peace, why don't you want peace? Why do you want your people to die?" to the victims of a dictator invading their home, bombing their cities, kidnapping their children and stealing their land. If they aren't settling for your offer it's probably because they don't think your offer is good enough to actually protect them. They're in desperation, if an offer was convincing they would take it. So why not?
They've been promised security before, they gave up their nukes for it. They sign a deal that Russia won't punch them in the face, Russia violates it twice and if they don't want to just sign another without a stronger third party guarantee, it's not because they don't want peace. It's because they know Russia can't be trusted.
They don't think American investments means much, before the war there was that joke rule of "no two countries with a McDonald's have ever been at war" which was essentially emblematic of this concept. That international business interests for peace were simply too strong for a country to overcome, and yet the war happened anyway.
If someone doesn't want to support Ukraine fine, there's lots of other bad stuff we ignore and don't help out with. But those people spreading this idea that "they must want to be invaded and die so not helping them is actually the best help", I just find that really sickening.
Why do you and others keep lying about the Budapest Memorandum? I can assume that you know perfectly well that it wasn't a binding security guarantee (which is precisely why it was called a 'memorandum'), and that it was signed primarily because it served US interests (to curb the then-scary prospect of nuclear proliferation), not because it was meant to benefit Ukraine.
Why are you insinuating that the Ukrainians are a blameless party in this conflict who can be trusted all the time?
Also, where is your enthusiasm? All I was hearing throughout the war from Atlanticist mainstream media was triumphalism promising total victory, because the Moskal are just a bunch of freezing, starving orcs who will use up their last functioning tank, cruise missile, artillery shell and pair of socks in two weeks. Where is the victory? Where is the glorious counteroffensive?
This is a bit over the line of too antagonistic. Especially the accusation of lying.
This is a warning, cool off a bit.
The flip side is that it has been three years and these things have been discussed regularly. If someone makes a top level post making obviously false claims about a very prominent event that has been on going for three years, the reasonable explanation is they are lying or engaging in such low effort that they should be ignored.
And let's also keep in mind that a nuclear arsenal in itself won't deter an enemy invasion anyway, as evidenced by the Yom Kippur War.
You know I’ve always wondered what exactly the Arab leadership was expecting to happen if they won. Just whistle past the graveyard and hope to not get vaporized?
Retrieve the territory that was lost in 1967, I'm sure.
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