ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
No bio...
User ID: 626
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
3hr ago
While one can easily situate wokeness in a lineage with historic leftist/progressive movements, I think nineties political correctness (with its fixation on identity politics organised around race, sex and sexuality) has so much overlap with the wokeness of 2010s that it's fair to consider it a recurrence of the exact same ideology rather than an offshoot.
Yeah, but I'm saying the 90's were themselves a recurrence. For example, this:
Instead, the task for socialist feminists is to develop a cultural marxism that can adequately explain the intricate interactions of the oppressions of race, class, and sex; a cultural marxism that helps give a clearer articulation of our various voices: feminist, black, chicano, Native American, Asian, male, female, gay, lesbian, heterosexual; a cultural marxism which understands human needs-family, ritual, religion, sex, fun, insanity, pain, fear and so on.
Was written in the 80's, and the obsession with identity seems to already have been in place, and the author was not the one who came up with the idea either.
In the other comment you put forward a hypothetical of Nazism being defeated, but not condemned in the same way we do it now. I think one of the effects of that would be what we're seeing here - the ideas periodically resurfacing under a new coat of paint, and the old iterations being forgotten.
Exactly, people jump in with half-baked reason to condemn one side, even though another side was easily as murderous. "Oh no, our murders weren't as bad, because they're not race-based!". It makes absolutely no sense.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
4hr ago
Some would go even further and describe Woke 1.0 as the "political correctness" movement in the 1990s.
...or the "New Left" of the 60's, or various far-left movements in early 20th century Europe from Spain to Russia, and and so on and so on, probably until the French Revolution, if not before...
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
6hr ago
but so are you. Those ancient foreign cultures were sexually degenerate; they were not exemplars of traditionalist
Uh... Where have I said that they were?
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
7hr ago
I was not aware that we had lost it.
My understanding of the "marketplace of ideas" is that anyone can put forward an idea, and let it stand on it's own. Not that as they do it, they also have to strategize about not getting fired, what to do if they do get fired, how to get around institutions throttling their reach or banning their idea outright, how to organize and fund security for IRL events, etc.
Which is why I left her at her doorstep
Poor gal, she got all excited about what she learned in her anti-racism class, and now she keeps getting disappointed
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
7hr ago
"Woke 1 was crazy".
It was only "Woke 1" if we're in Year Zero. These are core progressive ideas that have popped up throughout the century, that they sometimes get temporarily embarrassed about, and when that happens they try to throw the whole episode down the memory hole.
Non sequitur, unless by 'crazy left-wing stuff' you mean 'anything Jack Chick didn't like'.
How? Demanding that new definitions for "man" and "woman", and a belief if in "gender" be adopted is far beyond anything I recall seeing in a Chick Tract. The practice of Gender Affirming Care can also be rejected on the basis that it's pseudoscientific garbage, rather than "Jack Chick didn't like it".
One, that was not universal across all civilisations
Still a lot more universal than pro-trans people like to believe. A lot of the cultures they like to portray as having a concept of "trans" or "third gender" didn't, and they're just reinterpreting them through their values.
We should focus less on being normal and more on being kind.
There is nothing kind about accepting transgenderism, though.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1d ago
It's been a while since I saw the story, but at worst all you can say it was people he had some sort of a grudge against. Their properties were quite separated, and he targetted them specifically. It wasn't a random rampage.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1d ago
who caused quite a bit of damage.
To corrupt politicians' property. It's hard to be mad at that. It's like when lefties were vandalizing, and celebrating the vandalization of random Teslas, but if the cars were the personal property of Elon Musk.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
2d ago
...men with androgen-insensitivity syndrome who never knew that they were anything other than cis-women until they sought medical treatment for infertility
By the way, care to explain how this is supposed to work? Personally I'd expect the total inability to menstruate be enough of a tell, that they'd go and get checked before trying for a baby.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
2d ago
No, because 'biology' can include more than one variable
Not really. Observe:
who never knew that they were anything other than cis-women
social construct
people with XY chromosomes (...) androgen-insensitivity syndrome who never knew that they were anything other than cis-women until they sought medical treatment for infertility
Biology
'people born with dangly bits, regardless of later modifications thereto', 'people who currently have dangly bits, including pre-vaginoplasty trans-women and post-phalloplasty trans-men', or 'people with a lot of testosterone and not a lot of estrogen, including trans-men who have been on artificial hormones for some time and trans-women who have not'. All of these categories are biological.
None of these are examples of someone changing their biology, unless we're being artistically literal. No one talks about it in those terms about, say, amputees, or amputees who later got a prostetic limb.
Furthermore, 'male' can also be the adjectival form of 'man'.
Only if "man" is interpreted traditionally - as a biological category.
I don't think 'trans-woman', in common usage at least, is ever applied to Elliot Page or Chaz Bono.
Only if by "common" you mean "among progressives". To a normie that's just entering the conversation this terminology is incredibly confusing, as there is no way to tell whether it refers to the source or target gender. I remember I even had to clear it up for someone posting here.
It turned out I missed a few spots in the switch to absolute units when rendering stuff, rendering dead monsters to the background texture was a big one there, and a bit challenging to solve, but it's done now. I also managed to add explosive rounds. Now I want to add a grenade launcher, which on one hand is basically the same thing, but I'm playing with the idea letting it pass through the monsters, and exploding on a timer, which will be an extra mechanic to add.
How have you been doing @Southkraut?
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
6d ago
And when someone commits a new act of cultural vandalism, will they celebrate it or oppose it?
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
6d ago
I think I get where you're coming from. The closest analogy I can think of is when parents have a kid that ends up being a drug addict, murderer, etc., but no matter what, they say "they're still my child". That's fine and I agree, but also there are limits. In this case I would agree with you, if this was a disagreement over which direction the polity should take, but one that acknowledges it's well-being is the primary goal of taking political action to begin with. But in this case we're talking about people who are ideologically committed to dissolving the polity entirely and abolishing it's culture.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
6d ago
Anyway, if you look at any Eastern Bloc state after the fall of communism you can see examples of former communists
I can't say closely followed the lives of ex-communists, but from what I understand and recall after they've shed communism, rather than becoming hardworking patriots, a good chunk of them became corrupt politicians (and I mean that in the crass third-world way, not the western "velvet glove" corruption) with ties to organized crime (if not outright entering into it directly).
I can see the argument that it was better to have them around than a few million Muslim refugees, but I don't know if I could put these guys in the same tribe as myself in any meaningful way.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
6d ago
That they are white people from those countries, descended from other white people also from those countries, who speak white people languages, and are members of European-descent cultures.
That's not a prediction, that's a backward-looking reiteration of the original statement. What follows from this? For example, are they likely to have loyalty to European-descent people and affinity towards European culture, or are they more likely to side with the foreigners, and deconstruct and denigrate the culture? Or is there something tangible I'm not seeing that would indicate that they're invested in the well being of European people and culture?
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
7d ago
I just can't get into the minds of people still stuck in the media outrage cycle. Yes, Hollywood wants to kill everything that's good in the world, and wear it for a skinsuit, how is this news and why is anyone giving any energy to these people?
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
7d ago
It's not a question of aspects. If you actually believe in the whole "sex is biology, but gender is a social construct" thing, than "trans identified male" is 100% true and unambiguous, unlike "trans woman", which can be interpreted in either direction.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
8d ago
or because they are legally mandated to.
I am not a lawyer, but everything I read says that this is indeed the case. The article I linked references specific court cases that affirm this.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
8d ago
My definition of right is: A political view where hierarchies are created to give more power, responsabilities and rights to an "ingroup" in detriment of an "outgroup" the more ingroup bias and hierarchies exist, the further right it goes and vice-versa.
That would make socialism and communism right-wing.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
8d ago
If the tweet was more recent, would you find it more convincing? Because I'm pretty sure in this thread alone people linked to a few. Also news and think tank articles (though I suppose the latter points more to the US than Israel).
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
9d ago
but before that this issue was strongly driven by conservatives.
It's a bit more complicated than that. In 2017 North Carolina passed a anti-trans bathroom bill, and the pro-trans side organized a massive boycott against the state. After that conservatives refused to touch the topic with a 10 foot pole. Even on here / back on reddit we used to have pro-trans people use that incident to crow about how popular their issue is. During that time, it was actually the feminists that were trying to keep the conversation on it alive.
In the US, the TERFs lost and you can no longer be a feminist in good standing unless your feminism includes men pretending to be women. In the UK the battle between trans-inclusive and womyn-born-womyn feminisms is ongoing,
I don't think there's that much of a difference between the two countries in that regard. Much like in the UK, in the US a significant amount of the pushback against trans in led by feminists. Sure, they're not in good standing, but neither are the UK feminists. They all, including Rowling herself, get blacklisted, smeared, excluded from debates, etc. The actual difference that might exist is that in the US TERFs have chosen to cooperate with conservatives (likely for lack of other options), while in the UK they have enough numbers / institutional positioning to do their own thing.
This thread is going to start getting weirder as we grow older, won't it?
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