site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 13, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

5
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Because my nitpick topic is the intersection between politics and gender/sex, in the last months since 7 October I began a very unscientific analysis of the social media content, especially on Instagram, of my friends, acquaintances and other people I follow. (Context as always, European middle-upper class, intra-national environment, very EU-based)

I cannot emphatise enough how much the driven behind pro-Palestinian content is driven exclusively by women. Between the thousands of people I follow, there is a core of around 50 people, all women apart one anarchist guy, who are hard Palestinian-posters (And remember, there is a lot of interests in politics in my environment, it is normal to see all these people interested in stuff like this). And I am not talking about random posting, I am talking of months and months of posting, all inserted in a moral framework of "do not touch the children" or "Israelis are racists". Having followed the process since the beginning, it was fun to see how it took at least one month until the start of the pro-Palestinian posting, as if they were checking where it was the consensus in their group before beginning to post.

The question I ask the community here, why a topic that is so far from our location and interests (again, we are no Columbia University or Middle East, we are far away both ideologically and physically) is so interesting for women, that makes them post about id dozens of times every week, for months straight? And I am talking about a very intense interest, is not rare to see online meltdown of suffering, death menaces or simply histrionics directed towards obscure metaphysical forces.

Again, my observation are reinforced from what I saw in the US and Europe about the universities and campus protests; the protestors are overwhelmingly women, and the most desperate are women.

For me the question rotates around two different forces;

  • The maternal ethics of women, that makes them take always the side of the one that looks weaker or more oppressed.
  • The ideological force behind social networks, that make them taking the side of the part with more social consensus in their social circles.

Thinking about the past, it makes me smile how much it was common to hear, until twenty years ago, that women are very uninterested in politics, unlike men. For my generation, this idea looks absurd. Men do not care about politics at all.

I can't speak to women, but I can say one particular woman has been driving me fucking insane with her news coverage of Palestine.

I'm a long time fan of Breaking Points, but Krystal Ball has resorted to the most ghoulish, amoral dead baby calculus to justify literally anything Palestine has done, is doing, or will do. It's all "If Hamas killed 50 babies on 10/7, what does it say about Israel that has killed hundred of babies in their operations in Gaza?" She literally starts crying on air, choking up over "all the little babies starving to death in Gaza." Her entire argument is just babies and tears, and she beats that dead baby horse for hours a day.

I've taken to skipping all her coverage of Palestine. Ryan Grim, the other progressive host on their network, generally does a more informative, dispassionate job when he assumes his duties on Wednesdays.

Krystal Ball

Her name always makes my mouth curl into a slight smile whenever I see it. I mean, the memetic potential of it is next level and were I her I'd be leaning into it a lot more e.g.:

The Virgin Cassandra vs the Chad KRYSTAL BALL...

Her entire argument is just babies and tears

Funny - you could say this about both the left and the right regarding abortion today and not be wrong in either direction.

Politics is often silly.

Basing politics on emotions isn't exclusive to any one group.

This is the exact person that came to mind.

These Crossfire shows seem to lean towards the female leftist in general (The Hill show Ball used to be on is now dominated by a Bernie Bro with a browbeaten libertarian in a corner). But it's been incredibly noticeable how utterly emotional Ball is on this and how that impacts the show.

It makes it hard for anything to be discussed because the co-host is not enough of an asshole to really push it. Ironically, this is why progressives used to complain about "white women's tears" ; it stops everything.

Her equally leftist spouse Kyle Kulinski seem to share the exact same (bad imo) opinions without the unseemly weeping in public.