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I didn't really participate in the Israel-Gaza megathreads while they were live, for the same reason I don't participate in threads about crypto or YIMBYism: it wasn't a topic I knew much about, and I wasn't especially interested in educating myself. As an undergrad I'd attended a pro-Palestine march or two, and harboured some lingering vague, passive, semi-ironic anti-Zionist sentiment as a consequence; I was vaguely aware of the general contours of the history of the Israeli state (Six-Day War, USS Liberty, compulsory military service for men and women); I'd seen Waltz with Bashir many years ago; I recognised the names Netanyahu, Ariel Sharon, Yasser Arafat and PLO; and was under the general impression that a two-state solution would be in everyone's best interests, although I had absolutely no idea what this would look like in practice. While the megathreads were live, the word "Nakba" would have meant nothing to me, and I can't even say with confidence that I knew at the time that Gaza and the West Bank were non-contiguous.
I think my attitude of willing blissful ignorance changed when @ymeskhout posted his article "The Jewish Conspiracy to Change my Mind" and its followup. Like me, he approached the topic of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict from a position of relative ignorance, and after doing some research came away far more sympathetic to the Israelis than the Palestinians.
While Israel-Gaza may not have had much staying power on the Motte as the Current Thing™ (there were only four megathreads posted a week apart), it's been a fairly durable Current Thing™ in the popular discourse, and looks to remain that way for the foreseeable, perhaps at least as long as the Ukraine war did before it. As a result of this, it's hard to avoid encountering new perspectives on the conflict, and I'm finding myself reading countless articles about it every week. Wary of echo chamber dynamics, I'm making a conscious effort to force myself to read articles which are less sympathetic to the Israelis. I've found Freddie deBoer's takes unnecessarily combative and employing some rather queasy Fanon-esque mental gymnastics, but found Sam Kriss's articles on the topic to be some of the best of his I've read. I admire that he's demonstrated an ability to do what so many outspoken anti-Zionists seem unable or unwilling to do: express deep-seated sympathy for the Palestinian cause, up to and including denying the right of the state of Israel to exist, while also acknowledging the shocking brutality of Hamas's combat tactics and condemning them without reservation.
One such Kriss post, "Against the Brave", takes as its thesis that both the Israelis and Palestinians should be ashamed of the horrific, unspeakable cruelties they've inflicted on one another over the decades, and that a shared acknowledgement and a shared shame is the only path towards reconciliation. I noticed that this post was liked by @ymeskhout himself, which got me wondering if, seven months into this conflict, his attitudes have changed since he wrote his "Jewish Conspiracy" posts. More broadly, have any of you changed your minds on any key aspects of the conflict since October 7th? Did any of you think a two-state solution was viable within a generation, but no longer think so (or vice versa)? Has the conflict changed your opinion of Netanyahu, for better or worse?
There probably used to be some path where a two-state solution was okay or even preferable. Where there were probably other solutions that involved practical solutions and probably some compromise. I sadly think that time has passed.
Right now, regardless of morals, the simple fact is that Israel destroyed Gaza, Israel controls Gaza, and therefore Israel has a moral responsibility to rebuild and improve Gaza. To the tune of billions, quite frankly. You break it, you buy it. What is the path to peace? A lot of kumbaya shit, love everyone and embrace a multipolar state is the only remaining actual option. Note that in my opinion, this requires probably more effort on the part of the Palestinians overall but also crucially, it requires initiation from the Israelis. They have both the moral and practical requirement to be "first" when it comes to displaying love. Probably some sort of truth and reconciliation type thing is needed. Execute Israeli soldiers who committed war crimes even. Forgive a good number of lesser evils on both sides. Build some trust. This will at some point require ending the apartheid-adjacent, second-class treatment of Palestinians. The settlement sniping back and forth has got to stop. At some point, Palestinians might want to consider becoming more (traditionally) politically active. They have 20% of the population and 10% of the Knesset.
I reject that there is a moral argument that Israel has to rebuild Gaza.
Gaza was wrecked because it deserved to be wrecked. The idea that Israel has to rebuild Gaza is sort of some American philosophy being a Christian nation, but let me remind you Judaism is a pre-Christian religion. If Gaza did to Rome what they did to Israel Rome would crucify them, enslave a lot, and salt the earth so they never come back. In Judaism you can take vengeance for vengeance sake. Regardless, the morality you speak of is not my morality. I think even from a Catholic Just War Theory eviction can be argued as appropriate. Maybe $3k and a flight to somewhere else is morally fine.
Even after WW2 Germans were often evicted from lands they lived pre-WW2. That has been the case in many wars. Syria wasn’t rebuilt.
As far as war strategy goes I think Israel’s only rational move is full eviction at this point. I think the idea of rebuilding Gaza is neither morally universal or good military strategy.
where you suggest Israel to send Palestinians to?
I don’t think it is Israelis problem. Drive them out.
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