site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 3, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

24
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I am curious, because I saw it written many times here, but had no chance to investigate more.

What happened to the Alt-Right movement, and what makes it very different from the dissident right of now?

Adding on to the history a couple other people have laid out, first let me set the stage. Obama was elected in 2008 on a platform of Hope and Change. By 2016, Occupy had come and died, healthcare reform was a disaster, the banks had been bailed out, infrastructure investment was a failure, and we capped things off by bombing a Doctors Without Borders hospital. On the culture war front during those eight years, we had Atheism+, the gender wars, Gamergate, and the start of BLM.

Imagine you're a younger guy, late teens to twenties, in late 2015. You don't really care about gay marriage, or abortion. You're not religious. But at the same time, you're a veteran of the gender culture wars and Gamergate and you think wokeness and feminism are retarded and dishonest. You've been blackpilled on mainstream media and large parts of academia. You think socialism is fucking stupid.

Where is your political home? The answer, from maybe mid 2016 to early 2017, was an "alternative right". "Not yer granddaddy's rightwinger." This was the alt-right of The_Donald and "God Emperor Trump gonna make anime real". The media was in the early, heady stages of Trump Derangement Syndrome and in full war footing. As a counter-offensive against the nascent alt-right, they drug Richard Spencer's loser ass out of obscurity and put him on TV at every opportunity, culminating in this scene.

And that was the end of the alt-right as a name with any power. There was just no saving it against the kind of full court media campaign being waged. Anyone who wasn't a white nationalist started to abandon the term, with Charlotteville as the final nail in the coffin.