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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   35399 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 3, 2022

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I'm curious what folks here think about tankies.

I remember seeing a twitter thread during the onset of the Ukraine war explaining why Russia and China growing powerful even to the point of imperialism is vital to combat western imperialism, "someone has to do it". Whether one agrees that Russia has been constantly provoked by NATO or not, its difficult to spin Russian actions as "anti-imperialist". Similarly, China's land and water disputes with its neighbours. It appears both these countries have become a sort of canvas to project their ideologies. They often call western conservatives "far right" and often attack their criticisms of feminism. But how do they explain China's own censorship of feminist activism, the fact that independent labour unions are illegal, the push for pro-natalism, the push for masculinity training, etc.? I've seen many articles countering the stories about Uyghurs, but not much on the above. What really makes the "tankie ideology" attractive? I can fully understand and even sympathise with their gripes over western imperialism and even Israel to an extent, but I don't get the narratives that its all the neoliberals and the "far right" against China, essentially projecting the whole issue as a new cold war of ideologies between neoliberalism and communism.

I view them as not noticeably different from neo-Nazis. Both are inclined to romanticize the worst ideological failures of the twentieth century, and while both can find grains of value and/or justification here and there, the Everests of skulls suggest to those wiser folk that the search for meaning will be more fruitful elsewhere.

(Also, both groups have their LARPing edgelords and their true believers. The mix is likely similar.)

What's also noteworthy is that a huge section of the "far right" actually idolises Russia and China for the reasons I'd described above: they see the west as a decadent civilisation spreading wokeism worldwide, while those two are "strong, confident societies" resisting it and that their hegemony would end progressivism altogether.

I wouldn't say I idolise them in the slightest, but, say, if my country were ever to go to war with them and enact conscription, I would absolutely refuse to fight. Why would I want to fight for a country that despises me for being a white male? No, I think I'll just sit back and hope that you all wipe each other out.

Well, because the other would despise you for being an American. Because they'd kill you and take your stuff.

Idolizing Russia and China seems weird to me as a descriptor- the far right is pro-Russia to an extent and generally opposed to US foreign policy, but very anti-China and mostly only supports Russia to a point, not all the way. IRL far right wing groups more or less have the option of moving to Russia and building their own societies in the woods somewhere; it’s telling that none of them have taken it.

This whole war in Ukraine has definitely been interesting in the sense of what it has done to fringe online political communities, watching them turn on one another and split in what on the surface would seem to be unexpected ways.

Tankies supporting a right wing authoritarian invasion, Neo-Nazis cheering in support of the de-nazification of Ukraine, that sort of thing.

Tankies supporting a right wing authoritarian invasion, Neo-Nazis cheering in support of the de-nazification of Ukraine, that sort of thing.

These are precisely the things I would have expected, though. I suspect your problem is a surplus of gullibility -- thinking people mean what they say and are fundamentally honest.

If, like me, you interpret tankie to mean "fundamentally just hates America and western hegemony", it makes sense. If, like me, you think Putin is full of shit about the Nazi thing, and he's actually just mocking the west with that particular casus belli, and the Neo-Nazis are aware of it, their response makes sense.

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