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What are The Motte's thoughts on:
Women asking out men, or proposing is.. icky?
To me, it's finnnneeeee. I see no issues or implications to it. I've been explicitly asked out by girls thrice before, and I agreed for two of them. I didn't think of them as lesser "women" or feel emasculated by it, if anything, I thought of them more highly for doing that.
But talking/reading around, it seems to me a lot of people find the idea of a girl asking out a guy, or even more so a girl proposing a guy really icky. They can't explain what's icky about it, but I think it's something like the lines of the girl being a man and the man being a girl. I know their reaction is visceral, but I find it puzzling.
It seems to be a 50:50 split of men and women hating it with, 50% of the people hating it.
A man who doesn't pay for dates is a woman
Okay, read the comments on this insta reel: https://instagram.com/p/C9u0_gqxGRo/
Holy cow, women really hate the idea! Really really hate it.
I can see the defense if it were along the lines of, 'the initiator pays' and since the man is the initiator most of the time, the man pays de facto. Other than not being a fan of unclear messaging, (why describe the inference and not the model?), I don't think most of the pressed women actually mean that. They literally believe the man has to pay.
Once again... I don't see the big deal! Sometimes she can pay, sometimes I can pay. I probably won't bring this up in the future given some women are sooo vehemently against it, I can't make heads or tails of it.
Like I don't get it, if the man is actually a man, his manliness or whatever will be so overwhelming that something as simple as splitting the bill on a date wouldn't even make a dent to it.
Seems like a 90:10 split of f:m hating it with almost all of the haters being female.
I feel like I am peering into some kind of lower class bubble where displays of masculinity and femininity need to be that much more in your face because there isn't that much of it to begin with? IDK, I feel like these people are operating at a more animalistic level than me. And this stresses the fuck out of me because I am evidently in the minority and can't model other humans.
I'm not a progressive or liberal by any stretch, but I really don't see what the "conservatives" are on about here.
If a man has not already asked a woman out, it's either because she has failed to entice him with visual signals and flirting, or he is too socially incompetent or low self esteem to be worthy.
If batting your eyes and saying, "You know, I like spending time with you," doesn't work, then best to cut losses then and there. Guy isn't going to know the first thing about building a good life together.
This is clearly ‘asking a guy out’, though.
Unlike others I won't disagree with you, though I'd suggest that what you say is true arguably only after he has reached a sufficient point in life that he accepts the notion that any girl might find him attractive. Many, many guys take a surprising number of years to figure this out, despite the eyelid batting or coquettish arm touching of whatever female has been pitilessly tasked by destiny with sharing space in time and a Buick with him. (Oh for the return of bench car seats).
I suppose this doesn't even bear reiterating but I'll state it anyway: Boys need time to figure out their role in dating. This has always been true, and if it's never modeled for them by anyone (or is modeled, but with grave inaccuracy, in, for example media) the process runs the risk of turning them into man-boys or themselves feminine enough that they wait around for some luckless girl to brain them with a metaphorical steam iron of romantic know-how.
I recall my first prelude to actually having sexual intercourse (apologies if this is TMI but I won't get graphic) I was with a woman considerably older (or so it seemed at the time I was 22 and she was 31). We were sprawled on some church steps under the African night sky, having left our companions at some outdoor bar. Her exact words to my fumbling passivity: "Are you afraid to screw me?" Only the fact that she was clearly wanting me to pursue the matter (I didn't, not at that moment, that would occur another night, in a tent, largely by accident) kept me from having to excuse myself to step out into the bush (no pun. I mean actual bushveldt) from the shame of it. I felt like a boychild both rewarded and scolded at the same time. This rapidly accelerated my level of prowess however. I did not immediately become Rico Suavé (I probably never did) but through this moment and others like it I reached a level of sufficient competence that enabled me to function romantically. And though I eventually broke up with this same woman rather (unintentionally) cruelly, she taught me a lot.
Whenever I hear of a couple who hitched up young and with both having relatively little or no experience, I think they're either extraordinarily lucky or just blessed with great tolerance.
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