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Notes -
I want a vice presidential debate top level post.
So JD Vance sounded pretty good here overall. If you ask me, both speakers were miles ahead of their presidential candidate counterparts, which is sad. There is probably a lot that can be read from the debate, but I did want to discuss a couple moments making waves on other social media. First I will mention I was surprised to hear JD Vance support nuclear energy, and I will also mention a lot of people were probably unhappy with how he handled the gun control/mass shooting question. But back to the two I wanted to mention
The first such moment originated from a fact check:
Tim Walz responds to his statement, and then a debate moderator comes in with this:
I will cut it off there to not balloon this post. You can read the transcript here.
It seems many blue tribers saw him complaining about a fact check and seeing a win. Why would you complain about fact checking other than if you were lying? This is another example going back to Scott's post about the media rarely lying. Hey, they're temporary asylum seekers, so since they were allowed in with little hindrances to speak of, they're legal. Fact checked. This is an example of why I tend to dislike fact checking in a debate. It introduces an opportunity to use unfavorable framing on an opponent with lawyerspeak on technically true things. Let the candidates do it themselves if they want.
Next up, the January 6th and failure to concede the election:
Once again, there is more to this exchange than that. I said earlier that they had good performances, and I'll go further here and say that JD Vance had a pretty great night. I'd never heard him speak before and he sounded very well spoken, very well informed, and brought up many issues that I so dearly wished that Donald Trump would have brought up, like specifically naming the asylum system and mentioning the partial birth abortions allowed in Minnesota (I noticed Tim Walz's denial was not fact checked). That is to say, JD Vance is competent and might have won against Kamala Harris, representing a return to civil debates and "normal" politicians, despite the "weird" allegations.
But he is really dragged down on this issue. It's lame he has to defend election denial claims in the first place, and leave room for challenging more later. I know many of you have strong feelings on the truthfulness of the claims. I will say this: if someone goes and makes those claims, they shouldn't run again. That is very powerful ammo for the other side. And it's far from the only ammo. I am very disappointed with the rhetoric Trump throws around. His lashing out against Taylor Swift reads as totally pathetic. And it is sad to see someone with as much talent as JD Vance have to try to slip around all this crap coming at him, from both Tim Walz, the debate moderator, and untold amounts of unhappy people on Twitter.
JD Vance basically won the debate. He was bogged down by being tied to Trump’s dumber ideas, but he won nonetheless by running rings around Walz. He clearly knew what he was talking about, too, with comments like the CBP one app.
Walz lied about project 2025, but that’s to be expected. Vance pinned him on after birth abortion but I wish he could’ve called him out on Amanda Thurman.
Overall I think lots of Americans would be much happier if it were a Walz-Vance élection. The moderators were clearly biased but less so than the Trump-Harris debate. And I think the most lasting moment from the debate will be Walz’s gaffe where he claimed to befriend school shooters.
People here keep saying Democrats “lied about Project 2025.” What are they actually saying about it? What has Trump said, other than “not knowing the guy?”
I think if you take Trump seriously but not literally, or just assume that he doesn’t have many plans to choose from, he’s probably going to end up picking a very Project-approved slate. Kind of like the Federalist Society list of justices. He’s never had any problem delegating before.
Yes, I have no trouble believing that project 2025 will be very influential in a Trump admin. ‘Trump’s project 2025’ is a lie- it literally isn’t from Trump, wasn’t commissioned by Trump, and the implication that Trump endorsed everything therein is false- but it’s not a whopper, more of a stretcher.
It’s the contents of project 2025 which are lies. Like no, it does not include building a national database of pregnant women to prosecute miscarriages as abortion. If it did democrats would be able to point to the section and paragraph number, and quote specific wording. Democrats are just making up awful sounding bullshit because nobody’s going to go read through 900 pages of legalese to fact check it.
From the 2025 Mandate For Leadership Page 455 and 456:
Sure there isn't a literal "every state should have report every pregnant woman to the feds" merely "every state should have to report how every pregnancy ended to the feds." If you think the latter wouldn't be used to prosecute alleged violations of a federal abortion prohibition you're a fool.
Lack of high-quality data on an important women's health procedure is another indication of how the patriarchy doesn't take women's issues seriously.
I'm not a mod but can we avoid in general solo ironic statements like this (and this )regardless of their humor factor, in such discussions? In the spirit of writing what you mean.
(I wrote the linked comment)
That's fair. The Democrats' repeated insistence on referring to "Trump's Project 2025" is so transparently ridiculous, It makes me want to post the Jesse Pinkman, "he can't keep getting away with it," GIF. It somehow causes me great despair that the Democrats found this phrase which sounds ominous, and for that reason alone will keep on saying it, despite the fact that anyone who stops to think about what they know about Trump would find it wildly implausible. It just seems so cynical to me.
That's what I was trying to express, but I agree that it's better to not fill the forum with sarcastic comments
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