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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   3799 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for October 9, 2022

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.

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So this definitely fits into the category of "dumb question I'm embarrassed to ask" (which may fit better in Wellness, honestly, but seems to fit here too). How do you get over/handle social deficits?

For me, there are two aspects to the problem. The first issue is that almost all my knowledge is on extremely deep and specialised things that in practice hardly ever come up in actual conversation, whereas my general knowledge is seriously lacking in some areas. I was shown a photo of a postbox recently, and had no clue what you do with it. I also realised somewhat recently that I simply did not know where exactly the Statue of Liberty was in the US (it's in New York Harbour).

It could be that I'm a very extreme case of depth over breadth, but I also think this might be because it's incredibly easy for stuff (that I just don't care about and that's not immediately relevant to me) to slip out of my head. Though this might be related to the former phenomenon too in that the more I learn about topics of interest, the more of other things inevitably get pushed out. It's entirely possible that my tendency to deeply focus on certain things to the exclusion of others contributes to this pretty heavily, and ends up creating a very uneven skew in my acquisition and retention of knowledge.

The second issue is that even when the conversation drifts into topics that are in my bailiwick (which are often fairly complex), I often end up tripping over myself because my ability to find the appropriate words that allow me to properly detail what I'm thinking in the moment is seriously lacking. I come off as being much more eloquent in text than I am in real life. There isn't really a solution here which can be reduced down to "talk to people more", since I have done so quite frequently (at least, over the past year I have) and still this problem rears its head when in real time conversation.

Ideas and thoughts exist in my head as a cacophony of fuzzy, abstract, non-verbal concepts that constantly compete for space, and translating them into words is not my strong suit - especially when I'm trying to convey something that's not straightforward. Every single time I come off as eloquent in any way it's because I put quite a bit of effort into my wording and presentation that I simply can't do when placed on the spot, and this is a very non-linear process where I start by putting down a base thought (no matter how broken or incomprehensible it might be) and then proceed to iterate on it until it best resembles the idea I'm trying to convey. Without already having something out there that I can build upon, I'm quite atrocious at conveying detailed ideas from scratch, and unfortunately the method of doing things that I'm accustomed to can't be translated into real-time conversation well.

Combined, all of this makes for painfully awkward social interaction with other people, and makes it so that I say a lot of mortifyingly stupid shit that in hindsight is incredibly embarrassing. Perhaps it's my own personal bias towards regarding my own social mistakes as worse than those of others, but I think there really is something quite strange about the way I come off.

Conversation is for asking people questions about themselves, not for telling people stuff. Do way, way more of the former and the latter will happen naturally in the appropriate amount (which is minimal).

Excellent comment. I would just add, though, if the other party consistently refuses to reciprocate, don’t be a doormat.

I also realised somewhat recently that I simply did not know where exactly the Statue of Liberty was in the US

This seems entirely normal, a lot of normal people don't know where all the states are. The postbox thing is kinda unusual, but still doesn't seem to matter.

A partial solution: be friends with people who also have "knowledge is on extremely deep and specialised things", and talk with them about their specialized thing you also find interesting. "most conversation is just about vibes and not content" is true, but that makes those conversations less interesting or or 'fun' or useful compared to complex or relevant ones (not that that means it has to be about computers or science or anything).

Be a guest at several Toastmasters meetings, both in person and via Zoom or similar programs. Find one which has people you enjoy being around, at a time you can attend weekly or biweekly.

I joined Toastmasters in my twenties, and I was surprised at how quickly my social deficits were erased and replaced by social skills. I went from being a hot dog cook to an insurance clerk, to an admin assistant, using the social skills and professionalism I’d learned and practiced there.

You’ll learn how to package ideas and meaning into 5-7 minute monologues, as well as learning how to respond to questions with detailed but succinct 1-2 minute responses. All the other skills you’ll learn in Toastmasters are also vital to becoming not just a skilled speaker, but a respected and valued member of a social group.

Find a club at the Toastmasters website, either by distance from your location or online at a time (and in a language) of your choosing. PM me if you want a personal recommendation for clubs in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

I keep seeing recommendations for toastmasters on motte and lately I realised that I think it’s virtually entirely coming from you? That’s some determination to the organisation lol. I have no real interest in public speaking but might check them out soon just because you make sure I keep remembering their existence

As far as I know, I’m the only Motter posting about Toastmasters. People keep asking about how to make adult friends and improve their social skills (presumably without risk of public humiliation), and Toastmasters is the cheapest, least risky real-world way to do that. It’s what worked for me.

I will second this recommendation. I got my CTM shortly after college and it was an amazing experience. I met lots of interesting people and it did wonders for my social skills. No organization is perfect but the Toastmasters groups I've been in were pretty fantastic.

Just use the fully general template to get better at anything.

Find the appropriate level of difficulty which is not too easy but not overwhelmingly hard that you just fail without a chance for improving. Then on that level, push your boundaries, be consciously willing to step out of the comfort zone. But also be relaxed and confident, and don't imagine the stakes as too high. You can try again later too. And evaluate your performance afterwards, think of better ways you could have acted in hindsight, imagine future situations etc.

In terms of conversation, you can probably chat with close friends. How about friends of friends who still share many interests with you? Then you can expand to more and more different people. If it works one on one, how about small groups, then bigger ones?

Also realize that most conversation is just about vibes and not content. Showing interest in whatever's ratting around in the other person's mind is the main point, as well as sharing the moment etc. A few brain farts don't matter, just don't be defensive about it, go about it gracefully. Lots of people without broad lexical knowledge can nevertheless be good conversationalist.

And to have more interesting stuff to say, you also need to do more interesting stuff. This is a bit backwards, though. It's probably more fruitful to realize that there are a lot of interesting things out there that you haven't dived into yet. Perhaps out of an ego situation, that you consider yourself above normie shit, you conceptualize your self worth in terms of your knowledge in obscure specialized stuff and so you block out the possibility that normie shit can be interesting too.

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