This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
In "holy shit" culture war moments, Kanye has lashed out at (((us))) on Twitter. He came out of the gate swinging by stating that:
Please note that Kanye is using double-spaces instead of periods for some reason.
This comes shortly after he was pictured wearing a White Lives Matter shirt, and shortly before he asked rhetorically
As always, the reaction is worse than the action, and causes the story to explode. In response to accusations that Jews control the media and invented cancel culture, Jewish organizations have loudly declared that such accusations are anti-semitic and inherently untrue, and then demanded Kanye be cancelled. The irony appears lost on them. To the surprise of I'm sure absolutely no one, Kanye was quickly locked out of his twitter account.
Social media reactions have been mixed, to say the least. /pol/ has apparently decided that Kanye is one step removed from goose stepping his way down the isle at the Grammys, and is almost /theirguy/. Of course there's also a substantial faction who just spam n****r so I'm going to stop short of saying that Kanye has struck a blow for unity within the racist community.
/r/Kanye, which is dedicated to exactly what you think, is in full melt-down mode understandably.
I really don't have anything else to add to this monumental pile of flaming garbage. There is no redeeming anything buried here. Only more decay and hatred seeping into public spaces. I leave you with only this thought that has been said by far smarter men than I. Twitter delenda est.
Kanye, like JK Rowling and Elon Musk, are one of a handful of individuals who seem too big to be cancelled. All of these stunts and the predictable media pearl clutching only boosts his brand and attention as evidenced by social metrics , such as like and comments, on his tweets. Hardly anyone is actually genuinely offended by these tweets or the white lives matter shirt; it's just performance outrage or operant conditioning .
It's not a handful of individuals, it's just that the average case never gets noticed.
There are smaller e-celebs like Youtubers, Twitter artists, etc. who do immoral things and then just ride the backlash out, though not necessarily with confidence. The rise of tools that allow these people to control who might influence their audience (Twitter allowing you to control who can respond, Youtube allowing you to remove comments or filter by default) took away the already weakened ability for people to spread negative information about an e-celeb.
I really wouldn't say that people can't spread negative information about e-celebs. You may be saying that "the average case never gets noticed" because these things sometimes do rely on the overall notoriety/notability of a given person or group. For example, I used to, and still do witness the emanations/echoes of drama from fanbases and circles I've never even heard of before (whether that be Friday Night Funkin' mod makers, smaller VTubers I don't follow, or even up-and-coming breakcore artists following in the footsteps of Sewerslvt).
There may be something to the idea of "too small to cancel," if that's what you're getting at, but I don't think that's typically the case. If anything, as per the Streisand Effect, a person trying to curtail the spread of negative information or downplay the severity of allegations can really only ever inflame its spread--or at least, make it more juicy for commentators hungry for clicks. Turning off comments, blocking people, etc., these all only come off as bad optics at best, and confirmation of suspicions at worst.
There are a few who have managed to keep on trucking, to some extent (JonTron still makes videos and his politics don't seem to factor into them, and Bunny_GIF still streams like normal and probably still has some of her long-time fans), but there's probably way more who have either quit or have changed their cultural output considerably.
No, it's not that. The information does get spread, but people just...forget. The internet moves fast and contains tools for allowing e-celebs to staunch the flow of harmful information to any followers, new or old.
This, combined with how the internet creates bubbles around each creator that aren't matched irl, means that the people we want most dearly to hear the information (the genuine supporters) are less likely, perhaps incapable of, hearing it. The people who hear the criticisms and the people who watch the e-celeb can easily become 2 separate groups.
That's a valid way of looking at it, but I think you're also forgetting about growth. If a video about drama you started gets ranked high enough on the YT algorithm, that's it, your growth is probably over with, because that's the first thing YouTube's search and recommendations will push people towards.
Growth is important until it isn't. With even a small audience who are willing to pay (and if you get enough followers before you hit drama, you'll probably get this group) or watch ads for you, you can continue on even as your growth is non-existent.
Moreover, Youtube doesn't automatically push drama/controversy videos. By and large, you get the videos you want to watch. Try searching for your favorite creator and see if you get any drama/controversy videos in the top 10 or 20. It's only when you specify you want those videos that you get them.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link