site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 11, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Rachel Zegler whose previous contribution to Disney fortunes consisted of

“There’s a big focus on her love story with a guy who literally stalks her. Weird! Weird! So we didn’t do that this time. We have a different approach to what I’m sure a lot of people will assume is a love story just because we cast a guy in the movie. All of Andrew’s scenes could get cut, who knows? It’s Hollywood, baby!” -Rachel Zegler

“We absolutely wrote a Snow White that- she’s not gonna be saved by the prince and she’s not gonna be dreaming about true love, she’s dreaming about the leader she knows she can be and the leader her late father told her she can be if she was fearless, fair, brave, and true.” -

and is the lead of the live action remake of Snow White was forced to apologize. The apology reads as

“Hi everyone, I would like to sincerely apologize for the election post I shared on Instagram last week. I let me emotions get the best of me. Hatred and anger have caused us to move further and further away from peace and understanding, and I am sorry I contributed to the negative discourse. This week has been emotion for so many of us, but I firmly believe that everyone has the right to their opinion, even when it differs from my own. I am committed to contributing positively towards a better tomorrow.”

First the good part - it is not a non-apology, there even may be some form of sincerity underneath all the PR polish

The not so good - the thoughtcrime she had to apologize for was posting on her instagram:

“May Trump supporters and Trump voters and Trump himself never know peace. Another four years of hatred, leaning us towards a world I do not want to live in. Leaning us towards a world that will be hard to raise my daughter in.”

(There may have been a fuck donald trump also, but I didn't find reliable screenshot)

and Megyn Kelly with all her classiness and being more than 2 times older than Zegler articulated her displeasure as "Hello, Disney, you’re going to have to redo your film again, because this woman is a pig, and you fired Gina Carano for far less than this nonsense "

Couple of observations - first - relative to her demographic cohort the reaction towards Trump and his supporters is unbelievably tame. It is somewhere around 3/10 on the TDS scale. So I don't think that apology is even warranted. Every reasonable person knows that emotions will be high for a while. Second - the culture winds are shifting, so it seems that moneyed people realize that Trump 2.0 being parts of the Resistance unlike the first term won't be free - so I expect the celebrities to be held on tighter leashes in the next couple of years especially when we are in the age of huge flops. Third - you can take a blond hottie out of fox news, but you can never take fox news out of her. Fourth - it seems that the girlboss tropes are on the way out. Also her trying to girlboss snow white is much bigger "crime" than a passionate sincere disappointment over an election.

I expect a lot of people on the left to get in hot water because they are used to cost free activism since 2012 and for a lot this is their whole political life.

How do you think Hollywood will react to the new vibes?

relative to her demographic cohort the reaction towards Trump and his supporters is unbelievably tame. It is somewhere around 3/10 on the TDS scale. So I don't think that apology is even warranted. Every reasonable person knows that emotions will be high for a while.

I'm not grading on a curve. If you say that's a 3/10, then I say apologies start being appropriate at a 2/10. You don't get any credit for even worse people existing.

Yes, emotions will be high, but that just means that you have to deal with it like an adult or apologize for your failure to do so.