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I can't be spending time listening to that, but I have seen conservatives bitching about it on x - do they really admit internal polling never showed Harris could win?
Yes.
What's remarkable about all these admissions coming out after the fact about how Harris' internal polling never showed her winning, is how shameless they lied during the campaign. I mean, obviously you aren't ever going to admit your team has no chance. I wasn't expecting that. But to go even further, mocking Trump's internal polls (which agree with yours) that say he has the election almost in the bag, like that's a sign of how deranged he and his followers are. To frame Trump saying the public polls are fake, which you and he both know are fake, as Trump attacking democracy and preparing his following for another "insurgency". Things like that cross over from "The lies you are expected to tell" to "This is just evil" IMHO. Denying the truth is one thing. Going one over, and creating this narrative that everyone who believes the truth is insane and evil is political malpractice of the highest order.
Edit: I shit, I almost forgot how much Rasmussen polls were maligned! They were one of the only accurate public polls, and they were routinely excluded or down weighted by polling aggregates because they were considered "low quality". This despite both campaigns knowing, from their internal polls, that they were actually the most accurate!
Of course, the best arrow the Harris campaign and her spokespeople had against Rasmussen is that they are ardent 2020 "election deniers", and routinely tweet about the many ongoing lawsuits from 2020 that are continuing to this day. Funny how the most accurate polling company just can't manage to believe the 2020 election was "The most secure election ever." I'm sure it's just a coincidence.
That is exactly what you should do. If your polls show you are losing and you believe them, then one of your only chances is to convince your opponents supporters that actually they are losing in the hope they decide not to turn out on the day, and to convince some people that maybe he is actually really bad. That's why biased polls are useful. Because the polls can influence what people actually do, that is why there is so much argument about them. So yes, you absolutely should lie and mock your opponents polls even if you are certain they are correct. If you can convince enough people that Trump is a threat to democracy then you can retrospectively make the fake polls true. It's a high risk tactic and does not have a great success rate, but if you are sure you losing, then it is worth a shot.
It isn't political malpractice, it is just politics. If they didn't try it would be malpractice. You can lie about your opponent being a communist or a Nazi why shouldn't you be able to lie about their poll numbers, and that them attacking the poll numbers shows they are a Nazi in the hope that convinces people?
It sounds like you are both condemning and condoning the lies, and I don’t think that works. Either those political operatives have a duty to win the election at the cost of honesty, or not. Either we get the politicians we deserve(condemnation) , or we all lie to each other by mutual consent.
And I don’t think the latter situation is desirable or stable. Politicians lie to people, who know they lie, so they become politically disaffected, so the politicians lie more brazenly to keep them engaged, but the people know they lie and trust them even less; At some point all communication between them becomes pointless. Why would you normalize lies and encourage this spiral?
I am neither confemning or condoning. There are incentives put in place by our actions, those incentives lead to where we are today. A principled political consultant gets out competed and replaced. Politicians who are truthful and humble are outcompeted buy those who are not.
Those are the outcomes of our actions as voters and our actions as voters are downstream of the psychological make up of humanity.
Whether that is good or bad is irrelevant really. It simply is.
There isn't anything any individual can do about it, its a massive coordination issue, and there is no-one outside of humanity that can coordinate a better outcome.
The good news is this equilibrium is still better than the alternatives. Political engagement ebbs and flows and people are always very good at tricking themselves into thinking this time it will be different. This time the politicans will be better.
We had terrible disengagement in the 70s and it came back. No reason to think it won't happen again. Our ability to fool ourselves is one of our greatest strengths.
I don’t understand what’s so hard about condemning lies. To be clear, you think that Trump’s, above average tendency to lie, is morally perfectly fine, even required of a politician.
I don’t accept the responsibility of ‘us voters’. I don’t vote for liars generally. Some politicians lie more than others, and in different countries, at different times, politicians’ lies are more or less normalized.
Lies are a social technology with a purpose. In and of themselves lies are neither good nor bad in my opinion.
Trump doesn't really lie more than your average politician but he does lie differently. More the lies your boastful uncle tells than the more crafted non lie lies politicians generally aim for.
At a population level it doesn't matter if some individuals don't vote for liars, if the majority do.
Murder and Rape are social technology with a purpose, still evil, no matter your goals.
Go back to the abyss! Fall into nothingness that awaits you and your master!
I prefer "back to the pit" for a more modern feel.
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