site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 17, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

16
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Haha. This is at least the second time the Coalition for Jewish Values attacks Greenblatt for, essentially, being a more enthusiastic leftist than he is a Jewish lobbyist, and the last time I recall it was over Tucker too. Sometimes it feels like the screenwriters of our simulation are trying different spins on a concept that flops on release but is too sweet to just let go. Will the CJV ever get him? Will it be enough to take him down?

ADL is a powerful, respected and feared, leftist NGO which is also Jewish. It doesn't «just happen» to be staffed and led by Jews, of course, the mission is still explicitly focused on the wellbeing of their coethnics, but – they have suffered value drift, it seems. And the community begins to reject them.

There can be many more adequate equilibria. Even 14/88 (assuming Tucker is saying this), in itself, does not instruct any action with regards to non-White people; and inasmuch as [major organizations of] Jews do not precommit to some form of anti-14/88, coexistence of outright reactionary Orthodox and likewise reactionary White Christians in the US is possible.

In practice, people fail at such fragile schemes. What people do not fail at is simple partisanship and quid pro quo. Tabletmag is periodically dimly threatening the Democratic audience with what they call an incredible moral and cultural sin (of «Deserting to the GOP»). We'll see if it gets deemed the best solution.

Considering that the ultra-orthodox are very concerned about intermarriage, it would make sense that they consider some form of moderate white, christian nationalism a good thing- they don't want their children marrying gentiles, any more than white nationalists want their white gentile children marrying Jews.