site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 31, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

24
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Looks like the Supreme Court is finally getting around to challenging affirmative action. Of course we don't know what the ruling will be, but with the decisions so far I'm hopeful they strike down AA, or at least put a dent in it.

I'm surprised this isn't a bigger deal as I haven't heard much buzz about it from my liberal friends. According to the article, 74% of Americans don't believe in using race as a factor in college admissions (although that question and whether or not Affirmative Action should be struck down likely have far different approval rates.) It may be a Roe situation where they really don't care until one of the sacred cows is gored because they believe in their own invincibility. I'm curious if AA does get struck down, will we have the same reaction as Roe?

I'm sure some people will be upset, but do you think liberal states will start changing their constitutions to allow race filtering for college admissions? Or is the political will for AA just gone on both sides of the aisle?

Prediction market thinks there is very good chance AA is struck down.

https://kalshi.com/events/SFFA/markets/SFFA-COMPLETE

I'm sure some people will be upset, but do you think liberal states will start changing their constitutions to allow race filtering for college admissions?

There will certainly be some response. but if they persist in racial discrimination I would wonder how they will deal with the likely outcome of lots of talented applicants being siphoned off to colleges in other states? Will there be some kind of additional certification or requirement that a school has to meet to be listed as a 'truly' accredited institution? Maybe federal funding is tied to some other metric that is loosely tied to racial diversity.

An interesting tactic that I might expect to see is simply raising tuition prices across the board WHILE offering special scholarships to cover all or most of the price to eligible students based on race, so at least you can get applicants to self-select for which schools they go to, and can say "well we are not using race-based admissions standards!"

Although the ultimate decision striking down AA might be broad enough that even THAT form of discrimination would be suspect.

I'm curious if AA does get struck down, will we have the same reaction as Roe?

I can't imagine it will be as severe as all that, and yet Universities as a class have a LOT of political sway so I'm thinking we will definitely see some fits pitched.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if affirmative action, in practice, increased. I could see universities and states like California amd New York doubling down on AA out of spite, using the court case as a flag to rally around.

Maybe packaged with a larger 'reparations' policy or otherwise making it clear that they're going to spend EVEN MORE money trying to achieve racial parity, even if it isn't allowed in Admissions.