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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   32047 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 31, 2022

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As an organization grows, it becomes more challenging and then impossible for a single person to keep track of what's happening. Eventually they need to receive information and give orders without a way to verify whether the information is true or the orders were carried out. Add a few more layers of this, and this is why "all organizations that are not explicitly right-wing will over time become left-wing."

Left-wing of course is an organizational structure where low performers pledge their loyalty to managers in exchange for loot, which the managers extract from the productive parts of the organization using said loyalty. Every organization therefore experiences the same cycle: inception -> growth -> leftist takeover -> collapse.

Religion, nationalism, or any sort of ethos that unites people in service of some higher mission is social technology that prevents these last two parts.

Left-wing of course is an organizational structure where low performers pledge their loyalty to managers in exchange for loot, which the managers extract from the productive parts of the organization using said loyalty. Every organization therefore experiences the same cycle: inception -> growth -> leftist takeover -> collapse.

This is pure "boo outgroup" without even a pretense at providing evidence for your claim.

Seriously, people, actually read the rules in the sidebar. They have not changed significantly since we moved.

Is boo outgroup allowed if it's true?

For example: the behaviour of the "experts", media, government during COVID re: vaccine/lockdown skeptics, lab leak theorists was fully insane. It's now being walked back completely. A sober assessment of all of these events is extremely "boo outgroup". Are we allowed to say this stuff anyway, as long as it's in a somewhat civil way?

If a statement is true, but is boo outgroupy, you can make it not boo outgroup by just fleshing it out more and explaining why it's true. If you make novel or compelling, or even just interesting, points that are 'boo outgroup', the mods will probably allow it (see: kulak's regular genocidposts), but the OP was meh

Left-wing of course is an organizational structure where low performers pledge their loyalty to managers in exchange for loot

Did jesus give anyone loot? What about philanthropy? Left-wingers really do care about the poor minorities (not that they should), and really do want to free them from pain, complexity, oppression. This isn't just 'pledging loyalty for loot' exactly

Is boo outgroup allowed if it's true?

Everyone thinks what they're saying about their outgroup is true. What you mean is, "Is boo outgroup allowed if I really, really believe it's true?"

The answer is no, not unless it's a provable fact. You can express your interpretation of events and what you think it means, but consensus-building statements that just assert that what you think of your outgroup is true is not allowed.

I’ll join in the calls for Citation Needed. Passing information does not make something left-wing. Arguably, your example suggests a more reactionary, feudal structure in which the benighted peasants contract with a sovereign. It’s not a good example, given that you don’t explain how the productive end up loyal, but what should I expect from a cheap drive-by?

Also: paging that guy who wanted to prove wokeness was a religion.

Left-wing of course is an organizational structure where low performers pledge their loyalty to managers in exchange for loot, which the managers extract from the productive parts of the organization using said loyalty. Every organization therefore experiences the same cycle: inception -> growth -> leftist takeover -> collapse.

I think you will need to provide some evidence for your contention. That certainly isn't how I would define a left-wing organization, let alone "of course". There are many different organizational structures on the left from anarcho-communism through to hierarchal authoritarian communism to left-libertarianism through to neo-liberal progressive capitalism.

Left-wing politics describes the range of political ideologies that support and seek to achieve social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy.

Opposition to hierarchy is in the definition as per wikipedia. The force that drives these politics is a broker/manager class who profess the politics, supported by those who gain something from opposition to hierarchy i.e. those in the lower portion. Said alliance is easy to pick out in every leftist regime in history as well as on a smaller scale in organizations.

Opposition to hierarchy

Note you left out the word social from the definition, which changes quite a bit. Left wing militaries have hierarchies. Left wing companies have hierarchies. Even coops and the like do. Left wing political parties have hierarchies.

You're drawing way too broad a brush here and it is undermining your point considerably. I've worked in bureaucracies often said to be left wing and they did not have the manager/low status alliance. Indeed they were very much dog eat dog. Where people below would throw their manager under the bus for a chance at a promotion. Scheming and office politics are much more definitional in my experience that some kind of mid/low alliance.

Left-wing of course is an organizational structure where low performers pledge their loyalty to managers in exchange for loot

What makes any of that "left-wing"?

A lot, sadly. They spent over a century developing a whole ideology around it, no one else can compete

Same goes for you. If "my outgroup sucks" is the sum total of the content of your post, save it. This is a place for actually making arguments, not just flashing boo-lights for the appreciation of your fellow booers.

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