This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Of the Based and the Cringe
, or a song of Soy and Cope
a deep dive into the linguistic history of internet slang and its political implications.
My first foray into the linguistics of politics since Alex Jones Wordsmith
My interpretation of the etymology, or at least the popular usage, differs from yours:
"Based" rather quickly lost any association with the act of smoking crack--the phrase "[Thank You] Based God" became such a meme in itself that it erased any prior meaning and generated a new one, not unlike how Bugs Bunny single-handedly changed "Nimrod" from the name of a great hunter in the Old Testament into a term meaning "idiot." I think at that point, it simply became a thing you say to denote something being "cool". And that's really what the term is about: "based" is just a modern synonym for "cool," the newer generations' equivalent to the 90's kids' "extreme," "wicked," "tubular," etc., just with an extra connotation of contrarianism, of picking the harder or less-popular option.
Indeed, to examine the contrast between "based" and "cringe," I think it's more productive to touch upon the concept of Weirdness Points: in a way, based vs. cringe is about what your Weirdness Points can buy you in a social setting. To some, an odd pizza topping could be either based (because it's a surprising flavor once you get past the initial strangeness of it), or cringe (because it's genuinely revolting and no sane human would even think to try it), same with sexual fetishes/preferences or types of anime character and so on. A 1911 in a less-common caliber like 10mm Auto or the old .38 Super is worthy of respect; a "poor" choice of character or vehicle in a game (from fighting games to tabletop wargames) is either stupidity, arrogance, or a mark of sheer skill (or at least surprisingly viable upon a charitable examination); even a car as boxy and ugly as the Fox-Body Mustang could be rehabilitated and loved with the passage of time.
"Cringe," then, is when your Weirdness Points only cost you socially. I think "cringe" is actually as partisan as "based" can be; after all, what's more cringe than seeing someone nominally well-respected drop a slur or reveal themselves to have reactionary politics? Cringe is, in less culture-war-y terms, a reaction to a transgression against social norms, or some Overton Window of Sane Human Behavior; the cringe teenager isn't necessarily smoking literal oregano and faking a high, instead they're filming a TikTok of themselves either dancing sloppily to a Nightcore remix of a Top 40 song, or doing something inexplicable and risky for no real benefit (either activity destined to be a brief, confusing clip in some sort of Try Not To Laugh/Cringe Challenge video on YouTube later on). "Being cringe" is whenever you open or expand your social attack surface to being roasted online by strangers because you were acting weird.
As to online influencers fighting to be based instead of cringe: in my experience, this is maybe true in more...I guess high-stakes settings? Particularly within the commentary/drama communities and the like, where social stigma is as plentiful as guns and bullets in the middle of the Bosnian War. But there are communities focused around different personalities (particularly on Twitch) where said personality regularly embarasses themselves or makes a fool of themselves, and rather than being castigated for being cringy, they're instead embraced and praised, even if only because you can mine funny clips from them.
Some other thoughts:
-Overall, I thought this post was a little too kabbalistic. As the above writings suggest, I think it's not necessarily that deep and that the associations and conclusions you've teased out are probably coincidental.
-I thought the point of the Tao, of Yin and Yang, was that each contains a piece of the other? You can't have one without the other.
-The theory of the Soy Face you posit in a caption may have something to it, but I think the main reason is more to do with YouTube, its algorithm, and the psychology of what people will click on. As per the discussion on photos of protests from last week's CW roundup, people positively gravitate towards positivity, and the open mouth of the PogChamp face easily conveys excitement and joy. It also works as a form of Branding(tm), which is part of the YouTube Thumbnail Metagame. Now, why exactly there are so many examples of bearded white guys pogging, I can't exactly tell you, other than to gesture at Airport's Law.
My theory on why the "soy face" is common and arouses anger at some is that it's the sort of a face parents make at little kids to make them smile and laugh. Once you detach it from the context, it just becomes a part of general perceived societal childishness - the accusation of which stereotypically has affected the nerd scene ("You read comics? Those are for kids!") - which causes a counter-reaction.
Causing a counter-reaction from who, though? The nerds?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link