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Notes -
When vaccinating your kid (a US citizen) what vaccination schedule should you go with?
The standard US one
The standard of a different country which you think is better run (I picked Denmark)
Something else
I had a discussion with Grok 3 about this, and it seemed like it wanted to defend the US schedule (35 shots) until I pressed it about the Danish schedule (11 shots). Then it claimed that US schedule is necessary in the US because of different socioeconomic conditions. It seems like the US recommendations are based on helping the underclasses. For example, Hep B. My wife doesn't have Hep B. My kid won't get Hep B as a child. But a kid whose mom is a prostitute very much needs to be vaccinated for Hep B at birth.
In any case, after the censorship and disinformation promulgated by the US health agencies during the pandemic, I don't trust them. And clearly there is a corrupting profit motive here too. In this corrupted epistemic environment we simply don't know what the effects of giving kids 35 vaccine shots (plus annual flu and Covid shots) will be. I make no strong claims about vaccine injuries, and I think most vaccines are net positive. But I think, for my child, the Danish schedule + chicken pox is sufficient. At a minimum, I am deadset against any Covid vaccines. Can't say I look forward to arguing with nurses about this.
Please please please follow the vaccination schedule.
Pediatricians take a 6 figure pay cut because of how much they care about protecting kids, everything on there is for a reason - COVID nonsense aside.
If you have something specific other than COVID you have concerns about you should dig into that separately.
Keep in mind we've already started to have things like Measles outbreaks because of people become vaccine hesitant. Many of these disease are very deadly.
You also may introduce logistical problems down the line as your kid can't go to certain schools or get certain jobs (like healthcare) without jumping through extra hoops.
Also considering almost every kids gets this stuff we'd know about problems for the older stuff at this point.
Did you read my post? Of course I am giving my kids the MMR vaccine. They’ll get all the vaccines I got plus probably chicken pox as well. But why the US schedule and not the Danish one?
Yeah sorry lemme rephrase as "please please please follow the *U.S. vaccination schedule."
Not accusing you of not going for MMR but just using it as an example of downstream effects.
Something to keep in mind is that the U.S. schedule is optimized for "we are the wealthiest country in the in world" others may have more resource limitation focused choices.
COVID you can skip.
Using your other post as a reference point (and please forgive me Peds is not my area so I my professional level knowledge of this is distant).
Also several of these can impact getting jobs or housing at university (ex: the Heps, Meningitis), and skipping them will put you in the naughty bucket in your pediatrician's mind which isn't necessarily appropriate but is the reality.
Hep A - prob rare in Denmark? Hep B - prob rare in Denmark? Chicken Pox - no idea why they aren't doing this. Per PLOS Glob Public Health. 2023 Apr 5;3(4):e0001743. doi: 10.1371/journal.pgph.0001743 eople are advocating it? Rotavirus - this one is super complex and can't really be summarized here. Covid - skip if you want. Flu - don't skip please. Tetanus (from age 12) again probably low yield. Meningitis (from age 12) - don't skip please, looks like they have it but don't give to kids? Maybe it's pre college matriculation? IDK seems strange.
Keep in mind that incidence of disease varies country to country and the sheer variety and amount of immigrants in the U.S. (as well as poor health) put people at higher risks of somethings. This impacts the schedule.
I'm just wanting to point out- if you're trying to convince a vaccine skeptic who's mistrustful of vaccines to vaccinate their kid, this is an absolutely terrible argument to make even if you believe it.
I haven't gotten a flu shot in probably 20 years, and nobody I know has unless they're an RN or over 60. Don't make already falsified arguments like 'the flu shot is very important'(this is a different thing from 'the flu shot is good' or 'it would be a better world if everyone got their flu shot') if you want to convince someone already skeptical.
That was written before I realized how adversarial this was going to be.
The argument for the flu shot is:
-Risks are nearly zero. RNs are often actually very resistant to getting the flu shot. MDs roll our eyes at them because the reasoning is always "I'm a bitch" type complaints. Typically saying that they don't like shots for instance, or that the injection site hurts. I don't think I've ever met any physician who has treated a patient who has had an actual adverse reaction. Some people do get an immune response (aka feel a little sick). If you feel a little sick from the flu shot that's good evidence that you would feel even worse with the actual flu. The response to feeling a little sick should not be whining, I admit this is some boomer energy on my part.
-The flu shot can potentially help save you. If you have significant risk factors it can save your life. Not every person with significant risk factors knows they have significant risk factors. Diabetes for instance can go a long time without getting diagnosed if their primary care follow-up is poor.
-The flu shot can potentially help you out a lot. Evidence is a bit more squishy on this but that's because "I felt like ass for a three days" vs. "I felt mildly bad for one day" is extremely expensive to research and not worth it from a public health perspective, but I know personally not needing to call out work and be miserable for a few days is worth the mild inconvenience of other people.
-You can potentially help other people. If you getting less
virulentin some way prevents you from transmitting it to someone else than that is a good thing. Especially in general plague sources like children.-Research shows that the flu shot still has some utility even when we get the mix wrong for that year, it just isn't as much.
-Even when we get the mix wrong the right mix for the vaccine you still have is still going around in the population getting people ill.
TLDR: You should get the flu shot, the risks to you are near zero and if you are healthy and well the expected benefits are also low but your health is the most important thing most people own so you should take appropriate gambles.
However it is a known problem that people are willing to be lazy about their personal health in a way that they aren't with say their personal finances. Shrug
All have been informed that this is how this person views you. They are not interested in speaking to any intelligent, rational individual with the means and conscientiousness to care for their personal health. Instead, everything they say is tailored to their perception of the lowest common denominator member of the general public.
Has anyone ever dealt with a call center? You know that feeling of, "Motherfucker, I am intelligent and experienced enough to know that I don't need your script; I need a capable person who is willing to have a rational discussion about my very non-standard problem"? Have you ever just hung up and called back until you found such a person? Or tried to use tricks to escalate your way to finding such a person?
It is a pretty valuable skill to be able to assess another person's capability and perspective. Yes, this is the case even when you are trying to interact with someone because you actually need a person with greater knowledge and experience than yourself. The person you're talking to could secretly be the most knowledgeable person, able to effortlessly solve your problem, but if corporate is mandating (and effectively enforcing) that they read from a script instead, it is important to be able to understand this and seek out alternatives. It's no different if that mandate comes from inside the house, and there's just something about their worldview that is equally constraining.
Many doctors (apparently this one) are unfortunately like that. I had an experience once with a doctor-adjacent specialist. I knew approximately nothing about his specialty, but I very quickly learned that his entire specialty was built around one type of procedure. Literally everything else he did was to determine whether you would be a good candidate for that procedure and/or what minor variants might be involved. Yes, there was still a lot of value in getting his consultation, but it was also important to understand what he is about, what his perspective is, the way in which his every thought is shaped. He would be very valuable in one very specific way and approximately useless for anything outside of that lane.
Common investment advice is to take deep consideration of heterogeneity. "How do you differ from most of the market?" Statistics being what statistics are, there are many things in which you may not substantially differ. So, I would not give anyone mass advice as to how they should or should not invest. Similarly, I wouldn't give anyone mass advice as to how they should or should not interact with doctors like these. Just be aware of what it is that you're dealing with, be knowledgeable about your own self, and good luck out there.
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