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I think the most disturbing type of argument around Ukraine is the one that pretends to be doing it "for their own good". Like "Why don't you want peace, why don't you want peace? Why do you want your people to die?" to the victims of a dictator invading their home, bombing their cities, kidnapping their children and stealing their land. If they aren't settling for your offer it's probably because they don't think your offer is good enough to actually protect them. They're in desperation, if an offer was convincing they would take it. So why not?
They've been promised security before, they gave up their nukes for it. They sign a deal that Russia won't punch them in the face, Russia violates it twice and if they don't want to just sign another without a stronger third party guarantee, it's not because they don't want peace. It's because they know Russia can't be trusted.
They don't think American investments means much, before the war there was that joke rule of "no two countries with a McDonald's have ever been at war" which was essentially emblematic of this concept. That international business interests for peace were simply too strong for a country to overcome, and yet the war happened anyway.
If someone doesn't want to support Ukraine fine, there's lots of other bad stuff we ignore and don't help out with. But those people spreading this idea that "they must want to be invaded and die so not helping them is actually the best help", I just find that really sickening.
I’m not sure if you’re aware of who has been influencing Ukraine and what that means for “sovereignty over their land”. Kolomoisky, a Jewish oligarch, is responsible for Zelensky’s rise to power and has an outsize influence in Ukraine. Some information about him —
Kolomoisky associates with and helps mostly other Jews, not just when he launders his money to his tribe abroad, but also at home:
His money went toward building up a parallel ultra-orthodox Jewish colony in Ukraine:
His relationship to Zelensky:
Kolomoisky gained his power by hiring gangs to kill whoever stood on his way, at least according to Ukrainian authorities last year. And according to the Atlantic Council:
Kolomoisky, of course, owned the TV station that first propagandized Zelensky to the public. He played a character who becomes President, a way to manipulate the public into eventually voting for him.
So yeah, when I think of “sovereignty over my land”, I don’t think about Kolomoisky taking over the resources of a country through murder, illegally extracting all the money he can, spending that money on a lavish 100 million dollar “Menorah Center” and services for his foreign tribe members, funneling the rest of the money through his tribe members to help his co-ethnics 5000 miles away, and then using this media control to boost the popularity of yet another tribe member by depicting him as the president in expensive TV series. When I think of sovereignty, I do not think of “the largest money laundering operation in history”.
If I were Ukrainian I would not want to be controlled by these guys. I would rather be controlled by my brothers in Russia. The fact that they have put out calls for their tribe to flee Russia tells me all I need to know.
Why have you given your account password to SecureSignals?
In addition to what @Stefferi said, the whole "Ukraine as Russia's antithesis" thing was started by Poroshenko, the previous president, who in 2019 lost his reelection to Zelensky, who ran as a conciliatory candidate. Z only flipped his stance in early 2021, when his hastily assembled "drain the swamp" party slumped in the polls.
You don’t have to be as extreme as SecureSignals to see how crazy this scenario is. Ukrainian’s talk about “land” and protecting their sovereignty when a foreigner owned most of their land’s resources via corruption, to launder to his own people thousands of miles away. You mention Poroshenko, but Poroshenko had the awareness to go after Kolomoisky, which is why Kolomoisky fled to Israel (until Zelensky’s reelection, which was his own project). Kolomoisky really wanted his Jewish protege Oleksandr Lazorko in charge of Ukraine’s oil industry at a separate company, and when Poroshenko fired him…
When foreigners raid your country’s resources with their own paramilitary forces, and arrange for people to become president, you don’t have sovereignty. The reason these people fled Russia is because Russia stamps down on this stuff — replacing it with their own Slavic version, sure, but at least it doesn’t go to an insular tribe from a different culture. See what they did with Bill Browder.
Kolomoisky owned “most” of Ukraine’s resources? What?
The Jews who leave Russia leave, like many others, for economic reasons, not because there’s some huge fear of United Russia pursuing pogroms.
A project that has now ended with him in jail, stripped of citizenship, with billions of dollars of his assets seized and sold by the Ukrainian state without compensation…
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