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Culture War Roundup for the week of November 14, 2022

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ロリコン is not the same as 児童ポルノ, they're treated extremely differently in Japan and one is unmistakable for the other. Which, in fact, is the original reason that that stuff ended up on Mastodon, because the ideologically Californian people that ran twitter at the time couldn't fathom Japanese culture being okay with Californian taboos.

But yeah sure, support people who hate you and everything that you are because they might do some harm to people who are loosely affiliated in your mind with other people you hate. See where that gets you.

But yeah sure, support people who hate you and everything that you are because they might do some harm to people who are loosely affiliated in your mind with other people you hate. See where that gets you.

I kind of find this comment ironic since in any other context, most of the people spewing at @HlynkaCG would probably be on Team Burn the Pedos, but if they're pissing off SJWs, then they are defended without reservation.

(And I find the attempts to scrupulously differentiate "loli" from "actual" pedophilia unconvincing. Like, sure, I get that a lot of these guys just like really cute... really... young girls and may not literally be pedophiles in the clinical sense. But again, that's not a distinction the anti-woke crowd would accept in any kind of role-reversal. If we found out some prominent leftist was really into ロリコン, LibsOfTikTok would be all over it.)

The response here to the revelation that several scientists who write the WPATH recommendations regarding the treatment of transsexuality in children, were regulars on a castration fetish forum, wasn't that such a forum shouldn't be allowed to exist.

Not here, no, the norms here would push against such a statement. But I'd be willing to bet if I went looking in right-wing forums it wouldn't be hard to find such sentiments. I'd also be willing to bet that quite a few of the rightists here, if actually given the power, would ban castration fetishist forums (and a lot of other things). More than one has admitted as much.

I'd be willing to bet if I went looking in right-wing forums

Are you really going to argue against imaginary rightwingers so you don't have to address the arguments of people here?

If we actually look at the actual arguments of people who are actually here, it's weird to see the shift away from "woah there: you can't prove they're castration fetishists just because they administer a castration fetish website and write castration fetish porn, and who's to say if there's anything wrong with them basing medical treatment for children off of content from said fetish website."

At least they weren't drawing lewd cartoons, I guess. Apparently that's much worse and doesn't require any of the same charity.

Are you really going to argue against imaginary rightwingers so you don't have to address the arguments of people here?

I am addressing the arguments of people here. I believe some (not all) of the people here are not committed in any principled way to free speech, especially not that of people whom they would normally call pedos regardless of the strict accuracy of the term. I believe they are reacting firstly to "the enemy of my enemy" and secondly to "someone I don't like said something."

(If this is not you, then it is not you.)

If we actually look at the actual arguments of people who are actually here, it's weird to see the shift away from "woah there: you can't prove they're castration fetishists just because they administer a castration fetish website and write castration fetish porn, and who's to say if there's anything wrong with them basing medical treatment for children off of content from said fetish website."

I don't know who you are referring to here. Certainly not me or @HlynkaCG, so who is the defender of castration fetishists who's now criticizing lolicon?

At least they weren't drawing lewd cartoons, I guess. Apparently that's much worse and doesn't require any of the same charity.

Again, who are you referring to? I don't recall seeing anyone saying that lewd cartoons are worse.

I did not note in my original post (because I try to avoid unnecessary throat-clearing disclaimers) that I don't actually agree with Hlynka entirely. My own personal view is that castration fetishists and lolicon fans are deeply weird and creepy, but they should be left alone so long as they aren't actually touching children. I would not censor either one legally. But I agree with him a little - I think the weird, creepy fetishists should keep that shit to themselves and not encourage its normalization.

The thing I posted in this thread which seems to have you so upset was not a lack of charity for lolicon. It was an observation that it's ironic to see people say "That's weird and gross" or "That's free expression that only humorless puritans would object to" depending entirely on whose fetish is being indulged.

so who is the defender of castration fetishists who's now criticizing lolicon?

Who's the attacker of castration fetishists who's now defending lolicon? I'm prepared to believe that people hold such a position, but is anyone actually doing it?

Again, who are you referring to? I don't recall seeing anyone saying that lewd cartoons are worse.

...I think you and the person you're responding to are both going off a vibe that is both real and not terribly quantifiable. One gets the general sense that the other side isn't objecting enough on a specific topic, no? There's a sense that, while the literal meaning of the statements might be roughly equivalent, they're masking some deeper disagreement, perhaps intentionally. That about the size of it?

...I think you and the person you're responding to are both going off a vibe that is both real and not terribly quantifiable. One gets the general sense that the other side isn't objecting enough on a specific topic, no? There's a sense that, while the literal meaning of the statements might be roughly equivalent, they're masking some deeper disagreement, perhaps intentionally. That about the size of it?

That is probably a reasonable summation.

I think it's an entirely reasonable and accurate impression to get. The problem in my experience is that it's very difficult to turn that feeling into productive engagement, but at the same time the thing the feeling is signaling is too important to simply ignore.

What would you like to hear, and who would you want to hear it from, to dispel this feeling?

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