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PaperclipPerfector  1mo ago (text post)   33561 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 31, 2025

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So, it appears that Germany is following Trump's footsteps with regard to selectively removing foreigners for political speech:

The orders — issued by the state of Berlin, whose Senate administration oversees immigration enforcement — are set to take effect in less than a month. None of the four has been convicted of any crimes.

Some notes:

  • The four people to be deported are citizens of the US, Ireland and Poland. The latter two countries are part of the EU, as is Germany. One of the cornerstones of the EU single market is the free movement of people. It appears to be more of a privilege than a right, actually. For contrast, imagine if Bavaria decided to refuse entry to people from Prussia, or California decided to deport any people born in Texas -- both would be blatantly unconstitutional.
  • This decision was made by the city of Berlin, which is ruled by a coalition of CDU/SPD (convervative/labor) -- the same constellation which will rule Germany in the future. The CDU is basically trying to rebrand itself as AfD light -- adopting policies suggested by the far right. (The AfD is of course very opposed to anything which could be considered pro-Muslim antisemitism. Not that they are overly fond of holocaust memorials, though.) The SPD is notorious for lacking any organ resembling a spine, so it is unsurprising that they went along with it.
  • The targeted people were accused of participating in a pro-Gaza demonstration. Some where accused of shouting "From the river to the sea", which is illegal in Germany (and I am ok with it being illegal). However, none of them have been convicted so far.

Now, I am not per-se against deporting foreigners if they have been convicted of a serious offense, say if their prison sentences exceed 10% (or 20%) of the time they have spent in the host country so far. From what I can tell, most of the accusations here are very minor, though. Using immigration laws to sidestep due process is wrong, though.

Also, for EU citizens, expelling them should additionally be contingent on a separate court case in front of some EU court and subject to criminal standard of evidence. If Berlin wants to get rid of these people, let them argue why they are a hazard to their security in front of a judge.

No, Germany has always been doing this. If anything Trump is following in Europe's footsteps... except I believe the US has done this before, just rather more low key and nearly always by refusing entry rather than giving them the boot after they are here.

Most of the wailing in the US seems to be based on two cases. Mahmoud Khalil, who was involved in pro-Palestinian demonstrations which were not peaceful and is subject to a law requiring the personal (not delegated) approval of the Secretary of State to use. The main issue with him is he's a permanent resident, and I wouldn't cry if the law was found to be unconstitutional as applied to permanent residents, but this guy definitely at least deserves the boot. And Yunseo Chung, who was on a student visa and accused of an actual crime though at this point it is not clear if this is a pretext or not.

I think the more objectionable case, so far as any one has demonstrated, is attempting to deport a student-visa holder for co-authoring an op-ed in the student newspaper supporting divestment.

Claiming the op-ed in question offers support for terrorist organizations, or is detrimental to U.S. foreign policy, is stretching that definition very thin.

As far as I can tell it's only her lawyer making the claim that the op-ed is the only reason she's being deported. It appears the government has not laid out its case yet. Rubio has weighed in but it's not clear if he was personally involved before the fact; if he was, I'd increase my estimation that it was the op-ed, but Rubio did imply there was more:

“If you apply for a visa to enter the United States and be a student, and you tell us that the reason you are coming to the United States is not just because you want to write op-eds but because you want to participate in movements that are involved in doing things like vandalizing universities, harassing students, taking over buildings, creating a ruckus, we are not going to give you a visa,”

As far as I can tell it's only her lawyer making the claim that the op-ed is the only reason she's being deported.

If I had a nickel for every time I saw "Client innocent, defense lawyer alleges" as a headline or article premise, I'd probably be able to retire. Which is weird, because it's what lawyers on that side are paid to do, and seems the most dog-bites-man story available. But it works great if you're a journalist trying to muckrake.

Rubio’s quote was about 300-some attempted deportations, not this particular student. And, the article cities not just her lawyer but friends and colleagues who can’t recall much activism beyond the op-ed.

Not very impressed. I mean ever person listed has at least some vested interest in her staying in country. It’s not even neutral people say in the newspaper office saying that she wasn’t that political except to write this one thing, or someone at the protest talking about her being polite to Jews or something. It’s all her lawyer, her friends, and her colleagues— people who benefit if she stays.

I don’t think the aim is to impress anyone. And the Trump administration certainly has an interest in being very aggressive, on the other side of things. To the point made elsewhere, there has been additional evidence about involvement with disruptive protests, etc. for the other students picked up by ICE for deportation (i.e. Mahmoud Khalil) and I have not seen any surface in this case.

I’m not impressed with the defense. Every single person cited as evidence that she shouldn’t be deported has at least some interest in her staying, either for professional reasons or personal reasons. It’s like saying that “my mother says im a nice person” — you’d have to be extraordinarily naive to take as gospel the words of such people, especially when other neutral parties are silent. If the Jewish Student Union were standing up for her, that would be evidence. Her friends? Her coworkers? Her defense lawyer? It’s not impressive.

And, the article cities not just her lawyer but friends and colleagues who can’t recall much activism beyond the op-ed.

Oh, friends and colleagues too? Will we eventually get a photo of her involved in some campus-disrupting protest right next to said friends and colleagues? Look, skepticism about the government's position makes sense, but lacking any skepticism about her activities does not.

I certainly would not take anyone’s word here as gospel. But her friends and colleagues aren’t deporting anyone. And unlike the other individuals that have reached public attention, I have yet to see any evidence she was engaged in disruptive protests.

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