site banner
PaperclipPerfector  7mo ago (text post)   34001 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of April 14, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I think the coming crises will be best weathered by small (in population), still-relatively-ordered European countries with a strong sense of social solidarity and government capable of quickly responding to the people and probably Japan (the Chinese don’t care to invade them, whereas there are conceivable scenarios where they make a move on South Korea). The Baltics are out because of the Russian thing.

I would put the ranking as something like

Tier 1: Norway, Denmark, Switzerland, Japan (although probably only as a native)

Tier 2: USA

Tier 3 onward: everyone else

While I would not necessarily want to live through the automation revolution and/or China conflict in the US, the combination of ambitious, self-assured, optimistic worldview, bountiful natural resources, still-large domestic manufacturing sector and the lack of the soon-to-boil-over extreme ethnoreligious tensions present in the UK/France/Germany/Benelux mean that, if you can’t get into one of the above ‘premium’ European countries, you’re probably still best in the US.

and the lack of the soon-to-boil-over extreme ethnoreligious tensions present in the UK/France/Germany/Benelux

It remains the case that ADOS blacks are more numerous and more troublesome than any of the troublesome minorities in western European countries. The nearest thing to an exception is North African Arabs in France - differential fertility means that they are 16% and rising of French babies (vs 12% and falling of the US being ADOS blacks) - so this statement will not be true of France in 20 years' time unless there is signifiant assimilation.

The nearest thing to an exception is North African Arabs in France - differential fertility means that they are 16%

While I wouldn’t put absolute faith in extrapolations deriving from sickle cell anaemia testing (which is increasingly universal in France anyway), Maghrebis are almost certainly having much, much more than 16% of newborns in France.

I wouldn’t be so sure of China not invading Japan in the event of a truly large-scale Pacific war (i.e. the scale that leads to China being at war with South Korea and/or the US). If nothing else, there are significant US military bases throughout Japan that would surely be struck in the event of a Sino-American war, and it is difficult to see the Japanese government letting that slide without considering it an act of war against Japan itself, not least because some of those bases are shared with Japanese personnel. They are rearming for a reason. A full-scale Chinese invasion of the Japanese home islands is pretty unlikely, yes, but it’s not impossible (certainly it’s more likely than a Chinese invasion of the continental US) and I would not consider them to be “safe” from Chinese attack in any meaningful sense.

I’m intrigued about where Australia and New Zealand fit into this. I’m not super knowledgeable about their internal political conflicts, their economic situation, etc. Naïvely, they both strike me as highly functional societies, whose restive minorities could easily be subdued if shit truly hit the fan. Australia at least is massive, with huge capacity to accommodate a growing population. I don’t know how likely Australia would be to get sucked into a major world conflict involving China; if it sat such a thing out, it seems like it’d be well-positioned to thrive in whatever world order grew out of the resulting ashes.

Australia is pretty tightly allied to the US and is very likely to be involved in a direct conflict with China.

Socially, we have some issues related to mass immigration, but less so than the UK.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats