HlynkaCG
old man yelling at clouds
fozz 1yr ago·Edited 1yr ago
I don't think the FTX/SBF debacle relates to EA at all.
I think it does. The standard conservative critique of utilitarianism is that it externalizes responsibility and incentivizes sociopathic behavior. Robbing Peter to pay Paul buy bed-nets and donate to Democratic causes is not only acceptable but morally laudable if it increases net utility. This characterization may be dismissed by members of the EA community as an uncharitable strawman, but as Bankman-Fried has just demonstrated this is not a strawman at all.
Robbing Peter to pay Paul buy bed-nets and donate to Democratic causes is not only acceptable but morally laudable if it increases net utility.
Robbing isn't the right thing, because, among other problems, it's not sustainable. It sows clear distrust & it won't ultimately help you win in pursuit of your value. It works once or twice, but falls apart in an iterative game. (But yes, robbing from the rich in order to feed impoverished children is obviously ethically solid in a vacuum.)
Instead, people ought to be compelled to freely give to the most effective charities via rational arguments & through the example of others. It needs to grow organically into a cultural norm. And, again, robbing is an unstainable norm.
See Singer's 'Child Drowning in a Shallow Pond' thought experiment for the key premise of EA.
EA contains the rational argument for why each person is morally responsible for every other person, regardless of geographic or relational/genetic proximity.
magic9mushroom
If you're going to downvote me, and nobody's already voiced your objection, please reply and tell me
fozz 1yr ago
It's interesting you bring up Singer, because in The Most Good You Can Do he specifically advocates stock-market speculation for the purpose of giving the proceeds to charity - a non-universalisable strategy because speculation is zero-sum, and one which does only-semi-consensually deprive others of value.
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Notes -
I don't think the FTX/SBF debacle relates to EA at all.
EA is a set of ethical arguments.
That some guy within the sphere of people associated with EA might be greedy/stupid was already in my model.
It doesn't have the slightest effect on the ethical arguments.
I think it does. The standard conservative critique of utilitarianism is that it externalizes responsibility and incentivizes sociopathic behavior. Robbing Peter to
pay Paulbuy bed-nets and donate to Democratic causes is not only acceptable but morally laudable if it increases net utility. This characterization may be dismissed by members of the EA community as an uncharitable strawman, but as Bankman-Fried has just demonstrated this is not a strawman at all.Robbing isn't the right thing, because, among other problems, it's not sustainable. It sows clear distrust & it won't ultimately help you win in pursuit of your value. It works once or twice, but falls apart in an iterative game. (But yes, robbing from the rich in order to feed impoverished children is obviously ethically solid in a vacuum.)
Instead, people ought to be compelled to freely give to the most effective charities via rational arguments & through the example of others. It needs to grow organically into a cultural norm. And, again, robbing is an unstainable norm.
See Singer's 'Child Drowning in a Shallow Pond' thought experiment for the key premise of EA.
EA contains the rational argument for why each person is morally responsible for every other person, regardless of geographic or relational/genetic proximity.
It's interesting you bring up Singer, because in The Most Good You Can Do he specifically advocates stock-market speculation for the purpose of giving the proceeds to charity - a non-universalisable strategy because speculation is zero-sum, and one which does only-semi-consensually deprive others of value.
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