This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Many people don't have such a transactional view of marriage, and are happy to do their best to make each other comfortable and happy. It makes a lot of sense to me to have boring household chores be delegated to someone else rather than waste your life doing them if you can afford to do so.
Somewhat afield from the example, but I actually think that my peers among the PMC hire too-few domestic servants, and that hiring more would be obviously correct. The only reason for someone making north of $300k a year to do their own laundry and do their own dishes, if they don't enjoy it personally, is out of some misguided self-conceit as middle class or a discomfort with interacting with the proletariat. Both they and the people they hire would be better off.
I'm reading The Original Preppy Handbook from 1980 right now, and one of the certified summer activities for rich young girls was to hire on as a "mother's helper" for another rich family summering in the Hamptons or the Vineyard. Where did things like that go? Obviously beneficial arrangement for all involved.
Since they disallowed banging the babysitter everyone thinks it’s pointless.
Such a shame, without that dynamic we wouldn't have one of the most brutal scenes in film history: when the wife arrives home in Mystic Pizza having just missed her husband taking the babysitter's virginity, and innocently comments that he "forgot to pay her before she leaves."
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
FWIW, this was also a common activity for poor girls in rural Germany as late as the 1950s.
It's an obviously good activity to engage in!
But I find it particularly striking in the context of rich American girls bound to be third generation at Harvard or Vassar, to get a summer job as domestic help raising kids.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link