This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Add 'not addicted to porn and gambling' to your 'drugs' line. This probably weeds out a lot of men. Both of these are common, growing problems.
I'm trying to do as little as possible to get to a similar number of men as OP's good women.
Why? Isn’t your goal to make an equivalent list to see how it matches up?
No, my goal is to assemble a list of "advice compatible" traits that a man can cultivate to put himself in similarly rarified air as a Good Man to match up with one of these Good Women. It's actually pretty easy: there aren't a million single men under 40 out there who make decent money, aren't convicted felons, attend church, work out, and aren't addicts.
We don't need to get into gambling or porn. Just follow those criteria and the Good Woman to Good Man ratio shifts from the GW:M ratios to slightly in favor of Good Men pretty quickly.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Yes, that's the problem; you've decided the result in advance and you're trying to find a way to reach it. That way the onus can properly be left on men and no burden at all placed on women. Which is what we've been doing for the better part of a century at least and has led us here.
I have no interest in lecturing "men" here, advice when given is given to an individual man. And that man can quite surely make good decisions to achieve the goals set out in the post, and be among the top million marriageable men in America.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link