This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Yes, the Cambodian genocide and the American Civil War are examples of a significant minority of society getting stamped out. But you can't do that easily. And that was a large majority crushing a relatively small minority.
If you tried to do that to a significant majority (around 70% support for first trimester abortion) maybe it is you that would be taken before a firing squad.
The American Civil War involved a whole lot less "stamping out", and in fact the people on the other side of it formed a cohesive society together, and still resolved the issue at hand quite decisively.
Percentages of approval can in fact change over time. And in this case, where I observe that approval being established by overwhelming amounts of propaganda on one side of the issue, deployed by an interlocking social elite that is now teetering on the edge of collapse, I think the odds of a productive conversation are better than you allow.
In any case, opposition to serious, deep-rooted evil always carries risk. Those risks are acceptable. I do not endorse the John Brown method, but you should give some actual thought to what John Brown actually did, and how we regard him today. Likewise, you should consider how small the percentage of Americans were who were actually willing to fight explicitly for abolition, even well into the war.
You've been making your arguments for decades and can't even win referenda in Kansas or Missouri.
We made arguments for decades about illegal immigration as well for zero headway. Things change.
How familiar are you with Kermit Gosnell?
The fact is that the "conversation" our "society" has had to date on abortion has been highly dishonest, and that dishonesty has been enforced by the same social control mechanisms enforcing all the other "conversations" that have formed the foundation of Blue Tribe dominance. Those social control mechanisms and that dominance is observably collapsing, and with it the ability to enforce false consensus.
Viable infant humans are routinely and quite brutally destroyed under the current system, and the primary motive for doing so is not the well-being of the child or the health of the mother or but rather a desire on the part of the mother for psychological closure. Vast resources have been expended to ensure that the "conversation" is about anything but these two concrete facts.
Yeah I'm familiar with the bait-and-switch where you talk about late-term abortion and then try to ban all abortion.
Provide the name of a mother who's done it in the past two years.
More options
Context Copy link
You are replying to a filtered comment.
thank you. I've emptied the filter.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link