This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Lebron James is upset that he was asked questions about Kyrie James’ potential anti-semitism but was not asked about Jerry Jones potential anti black racism. For those not familiar, Kyrie is a basketball player that posted a video link to a movie that I understand is making the claim the blacks are the real Jews. Kyrie refused to apologize until he eventually did. A photo of Jerry Jones emerged that showed Jones was in the crowd that was attempting to prevent Arkansas from de-segregating schools. It isn’t clear from the picture whether Jones was participating or merely watching a spectacle. Also of note Jones was only 14 and it was about sixty five years ago. Jones is an owner of the Dallas Cowboys, a football team (the real football; not the silly sport being played in Qatar right now).
Below is a link to ESPN.
This seems like Lebron’s attempt to revenged racism as “whites against blacks” instead of the conversation that blacks (eg Kanye, Kyrie, other athletes) have an anti semitism problem. The reason I think so is because the situations couldn’t be very different.
Kyrie did these actions today; Jones was photographed 65 years ago. People change.
Kyrie is a grown ass man. Jones was 14.
It isn’t clear Jones was even being racist.
It is more natural that Lebron was asked about something happening in the NBA as opposed to something happening in the NFL.
I am curious if this will be successful. The dirty secret is that the black community does have some pretty big racism issues (eg anti antisemitism). It’s also interesting that instead of leading the charge, Lebron wants to redirect. It makes it seem that he doesn’t give a damn about justice but just special pleading for his own race. Now of course I’d believe that because I dislike Lebron. But curious to hear other thoughts.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/35153937/lebron-james-faults-media-not-asking-1957-jerry-jones-photo
Lebron and Kyrie won a ring together. If you watched the series that year, it was so important to Lebron to bring that championship to his hometown team. He left his heart out on the floor every single night against the 73 win warriors. And without Kyrie it wouldn't have happened, Cleveland would still be waiting, Cleveland sports fans would be hoping that whoremonger on the browns would break the drought.
So rather than criticize the hypocrisy, I want to celebrate the loyalty. Kyrie is his friend, and he's going to stand by him. If you offered me irrefutable evidence that my friend or my brother did something wrong, I'd tell you black is white and up is down in public before I'd criticize them.
I find the opposite tendency, where former friends and colleagues drop a cancelled guy like a hot potato as soon as the accusations come out, cowardly and inhuman, unworthy of a celebrity. So let's pass over this one, or celebrate the loyalty.
Loyalty is one thing (eg Kyrie messed up but he is a good dude). But proactively trying to shit on someone else due to loyalty when said other person wasn’t relevant to the story?
It’s also a pattern for Lebron to only care about social issues that impact black people (eg sided with PRC)
My firm had a me too incident. I stood by my friend who was accused (I don’t believe he did everything he was accused of; I do think he asked for sex but that’s it). But I didn’t try to shift the conversation by hurting others. Instead I said “X made a mistake but he also does a lot of good.”
I get where you're coming from, and good on you for sticking by your buddy, but Jerry Jones is a lizard person so he can't be hurt, and Lebron can't hurt him any more than Dak Prescott already has anyway.
I kid, I kid.
I guess. Sterling was brought down due to racism.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link