Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
What is this place?
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
If in doubt, please post it!
Rules
- Courtesy
- Content
- Engagement
- When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
- Proactively provide evidence in proportion to how partisan and inflammatory your claim might be.
- Accept temporary bans as a time-out, and don't attempt to rejoin the conversation until it's lifted.
- Don't attempt to build consensus or enforce ideological conformity.
- Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
- The Wildcard Rule
- The Metarule
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
It appears that this forum is filled with city slickers in fancy German cars. What cars have you driven on a regular basis? If they were expensive, have you found them to be worth the extra money?
I have driven the following cars on a regular basis.
2023: 2023 Mitsubishi Mirage (purchased new for 18 k$)
2019: 2015 Honda Fit (purchased from my mother for 14 k$)
2017: 2007 Pontiac G6 (borrowed from my father for free)
I have been driven around by my parents in the following cars.
The aforementioned Fit (mother's) and G6 (father's)
2013 Honda Civic (mother's)
2001–2010 Volvo S60 (father's)
2000–2005 Dodge Neon (mother's)
1993–1997 Mazda MX-6 (father's; manual)
1993 Toyota Tercel (mother's)
I have never found fault with these cheap (not including the S60, I guess) cars (other than the Civic's poor rear visibility; I prefer hatchbacks to sedans) or seen any reason to get anything more expensive.
(Note that I purchased the Mirage, not to replace the Fit with it, but so that (1) I could sell the Fit back to my mother, and then (2) she could expunge from our household the Civic that I disliked. Another motive for getting the Mirage was FOMO on a car that was soon to be discontinued in the US market despite obviously being the best car there.)
Really? I feel like last time someone asked for car buying advice, the answers were all Hondas and Toyotas. Although even with those, "expensive" is relative. I regard Hondas as "expensive" in that they cost more than a similarly-sized Ford or Subaru or the like. But in my experience it's difficult to go wrong with a Honda daily driver. Though my household currently hasn't got a single vehicle less than a decade old, so it's possible my impressions are out of date.
I would like to have an electric car for commuting, but I need the all-in price on a gently used electric car to be much closer to $15,000 than $50,000 before that can happen. Ten years ago, I really had hoped to have a full self-driving car by 2025. But as near as I can tell, for the foreseeable future I will be driving a standard transmission Honda.
This is a fascinating list because it is so short. I can't even tell you the models of all the cars I have driven, much less the years--too many rentals to count! I would be hard pressed to remember with accuracy the year of every car I have personally owned. I will say that the overall "feel" or "comfort" of consumer-model cars mostly scales linearly with price, but whether you're willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars for "oh wow they really got those knob clicks dialed in, didn't they, and this steering wheel feels amazing" naturally depends a lot on how many dollars you have. And the linear comfort scaling does not apply to sports cars; cars built to go very fast are often quite uncomfortable to drive.
If I had infinity dollars right now, I would probably buy a Tesla S and keep a gas-fed Honda parked alongside it.
I haven't looked at the market, and I'm sure it isn't there yet, but depending on your commuting distance, a plug-in hybrid may be worth considering.
Depending on the market it might sort of be there. I don't remember where @naraburns lives, the length of his commute, or the size of car he wanted. But... You can get a used electric Hyundai Kona for a list of $14.5k right now. All up you would probably just push over $15k, but you can probably find one for $15k private party in the right part of the country. With a level two charger in the garage, you would probably come out okay for all but the longest commutes.
It is probably small and crappy relitive to an equal cost compact crossover, though I have never driven one. Could be great or horrible for all I know.
I would expect the Hyundai IONIQ 5/6 is probably roughly as comfortable as a comparably equipped new Honda HR-V/Accord. With a few years of depreciation it should hit that 15k point sooner rather than later. You probably don't need 100% of original battery life if you are just using it for a city commuter and have a gas car for road trips/backup.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I have clarified my comment to say "driven on a regular basis". (I have never driven a rental car. And I've been driving only since 2017.)
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link