site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of June 16, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

4
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Citation needed. Or at least some kind of argument. You're just stipulating this as though it were fact.

Actually existing actual monarchies tend to produce lackluster economic growth while offering much higher stability and avoiding the dumber mistakes of their neighbors. Granted, the only place where you really see monarchy and demotism side by side is the arab world. But still; it's probably fair to say that monarchy tends to avoid the worst mistakes a government can make in ways that other forms of government do not, but is also not a magic bullet.

while offering much higher stability and avoiding the dumber mistakes

Strong disagree on both of those statements. Democracies are the most stable form of government in existence since they allow for peaceful transfer of power. Hybrid regimes like those in the Sahel or Central America are notoriously unstable and chain coups like they're going out of style. More totalitarian states like Russia and China are more stable overall, and can seem even more stable than democracies... until they aren't. They're brittle and tend to shatter rather than undergo painful reforms. The biggest threat to democracies is rarely a big civil war, but rather descending into Orbanism.

And autocracies make stupid moves all the time. Zero Covid? Also, the whole Communist flavor of autocracies from 1945-1991 was a major unforced screwup.

They're brittle and tend to shatter rather than undergo painful reforms.

What do you call Chile, Singapore, South Korea, or Taiwan, if not "undergoing painful reforms"?

Hybrid regimes like those in the Sahel or Central America

Calling them "hybrid" sounds like cope to avoid accountability for the failures of the system.

The biggest threat to democracies is rarely a big civil war, but rather descending into Orbanism.

The biggest threat to democracies is getting locked into a path constant deterioration that can't be plausibly changed through voting, like South Africa.

‘Monarchies’

Monarchies were just the dictatorships of old.

This is a very modern misunderstanding. Most European kings did not historically have anything like absolute power, but were beholden to a law above their own authority. Their prerogatives were sharply circumscribed in all sorts of ways.

Check out Missing Monarchy if you haven't. https://www.amazon.com/Missing-Monarchy-Correcting-Misconceptions-Democracy/dp/B0D6FGC9YF But not the audiobook, which is auto-generated and awful.

There are several cases of countries speedrunning from mediavel to modern through a dictatorship, are there any success stories like that with democracy?

Also, your metric is rather confounded. It only makes sense to use it, if you assume all people in the world are fungible. The question is if these monarchies would fare better as democracies. Various recent experiments by the US cast a large doubt on that theory, in my opinion.