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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   31649 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 5, 2022

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Why wouldn't the Yalta Treaty be condemned? My country was stuck on the wrong side of the curtain for 45 years because Roosevelt used us as a bargaining chip.

Edit: And before you answer, I would like you to think very carefully about the role the Red Army played in WWII, in the context of Poland.

Why wouldn't the Yalta Treaty be condemned?

From the selected letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, one from 1943:

Nothing to read – and even the papers with nothing but Teheran Ballyhoo. Though I must admit that I smiled a kind of sickly smile and 'nearly curled up on the floor, and the subsequent proceedings interested me no more', when I heard of that bloodthirsty old murderer Josef Stalin inviting all nations to join a happy family of folks devoted to the abolition of tyranny & intolerance! But I must also admit that in the photograph our little cherub W. S. C. actually looked the biggest ruffian present.

(W.S.C. = Winston Churchill)

When Germany invaded Poland, what Red Army should have done? If they wouldn't have occupied Eastern parts, Germany would occupy all territory of Poland.

  • -10

It's not like they saw the Germans invading Poland and then quickly decided to invade to salvage what they could. The invasion was planned and coordinated between Germany and the Soviet Union from the start.

Was the Katyn massacre also part of the Soviet 4D chess strategy to beat the Nazis?

Yes, there was a pre-invasion plan between Germany and USSR. I don't think it included "Germans attack on 1 sep, then Germans urge Soviets to attack and Soviets reluctantly attack on 17 sep". Germany was more strong enough to beat Poland alone, didn't need Soviet help to do so and began to advance on territories which were planned be go to Soviet zone.

Was the Katyn massacre also part of the Soviet 4D chess

What does this have to do with this? This Soviet atrocity happened on RFSFR proper soil when invasion of Poland was finished

You forgot to mention that USSR and Germany cooperated in starting WW II - both in developing military power before, joint strategy planning, invading Poland and holding a military parade after victory.

what Red Army should have done?

Do not help Germans.

Do not attack Polish Army (also in 1920).

Leave after WW II ended.

Murder, rape and loot less.

The Soviet official explanation for partially annexing Poland may have been flimsy, but I'm sure it was not flimsier than the Allied explanation for invading Iran or Iceland.

The Allied explanation for invading Iceland was to deny it to the Germans, which while not the strongest moral justification in the world doesn't seem all that flimsy as to sincerity.

Why should I assume that the Germans were planning to invade Iceland?

On the other hand, why should I assume they were not planning to annex the whole of Poland?

I'm sure it was not flimsier than the Allied explanation for invading Iran or Iceland.

You are wrong.

Invading Poland by USSR in alliance with Third Reich Germany was done for much, much worse reasons.

And even if that claim would be true, it still does not explain why explicitly condemning the Yalta Treaty would be bad.

I wasn't talking about reasons, which we may or may not fully know in retrospect. I was talking about official justifications.

USSR official justification was flimsy because it was outright lie and fakery, exposed by clear and ongoing cooperation wither Third Reich.

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