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You spent a considerable amount of words digging away at the foundations of “The Gun That Goes Off For No Reason,” but if it turns out this is true,* would you consider it a gun that goes off for no reason?
*One hopes that everyone discussing this understands that “no reason” means “without purposeful human input.” The guy bumping his desk as he stood up is a reason in the causal sense, but obviously not the sort of thing you want your holstered gun to do.
If somebody can show me a set of manipulations that can set off the primer without touching the trigger, SIG should face criminal charges.
Does this count?
I address that in the original post. He shoves a screw into the trigger assembly. I don't consider that no reason, but I could entertain the notion that it is indicative of a deficient design.
The screw is to demonstrate the effect that quite a lot of holsters might have of putting slight pressure on the trigger shoe. The fact that you can get the gun to fire without pulling the trigger past the sear release simply by jostling the slide is, in firearms terms, completely and totally unacceptable.
That screw is representing a hell of a lot more than "slight pressure" from the holster. It's moving 1mm past the pretravel as measured from the top of the shoe. That's a lot.
Having the sear engaged that much and then jostling the gun is not going to go well on a variety of firearms.
Mmm, going to have to disagree. The P320 has a fairly light trigger pull compared to most DA striker fired guns, 1mm of travel is maybe 2 lbs at most? Probably less.
And no, partially engaging the sear then jostling the gun absolutely should not result in a discharge, thats the whole point behind drop and firing pin safeties. Except as newer videos reveal, the P320s firing pin safety does not actually block the firing pin, and the drop safety is easily defeated by any slide canting, which occurs even under normal trigger pulls.
It appears to be a uniquely terrible design, even compared to other Sig pistols with teething issues, and a possible exception to the "guns dont kill people, people kill people" rule.
Doesn't the stock P320 have about the same trigger pull weight as other in its class? Glocks are like 5.5 lbs and the M18 is like 5.5 to 7 lbs from what I'm seeing.
The "1mm of travel" is not being done at the regular point of measurement if he's jamming shit up top after pre-travel. That's way more movement down where the finger engages the shoe.
Basic errors like this are why I have a hard time taking the critics here seriously.
Engaging the sear nearly to the point of firing and then fucking with it is going to cause problems if tolerances are off from either defects or wear issues. I'm perfectly willing to believe manufacturing/wear defects combined with the inherent design of the cocked striker lead to these problems. That would explain why they're rare.
Also, looking at this Wyoming Gun Project specimen what the hell is wrong with his FCU rails being bent so much? That's not normal. I only have P365s, which is a broadly similar FCU design, and there's nowhere near that level of give, loaded or empty. Like his gun is clearly not safe, but it's an old and clearly beat-to-shit .45 and not an M18. It seems obvious to me that the amount of movement in the slide allows the partially engaged sear to move off the correct path and so it slips.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=OYoxraSP5pY
The issue here is that this gun has like 3 million copies in the U.S. and has undergone numerous rigorous testing and trials. So when some video pops up showing "wow obviously this gun is bad when I fuck with it" I dismiss it by default, because if the issue was so obvious we would 1) see way more issues than we do and 2) this all would have been figured out by now.
I guess it depends on what your standard for pulls is, I dont own a P320 but i would called them on the lighter side of average for the ones I've shot.
But again, engaging the sear to any point before release should not fire the gun. Tolerance stackup is a thing, but it needs to be managed for safety critical applications.
Sort of? The XM17 selection has been controversial for a while- the P320 did poorly on the drop safety tests resulting in a redesign, and then after down select to just Sig and Glock, Sig was awarded the contract before endurance testing was actuslly accomplished (allegedly because Sig cut their price massively at that point). Police departments appear to have based their selection on the military's selection, but I havent heard much about any of their testing, there doesnt appear to be a whole lot of it done.
Now I agree if this was just bitching about one Glock-clone vs another then there might not be anything to it, but the P320 is not a Glock clone, and has some rather unique elements to its design such as a fully cocked striker on recoil that no one else has done (including Sig on their other guns like the P365), and there appears to be a good reason for that.
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