This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Why is nobody talking about the trade deal that EU stroke with Trump
TLDR is that EU makes Trump a blowjob and in return they get the privilege to swallow. The deal is one sided and quite good for the US. The other thing is that if EU is hoping to weather the storm and then it will be off - yeah right. There won't be a person as stupid as Carter in the white house anytime soon. No matter if 2028 is dem or rep year - this deal will be requested to be honored.
Trump's idea to sell access to US market is not without merits even if it is implementation is botched as hell. And no one is brave enough to even propose retaliation.
Yeah, Trump won this particular round of chicken. Of course, another way to spin it is that 15% tariffs are not a world-shattering amount, especially to the numbers he originally proposed. But all in all, it seems a bit more than just a token amount to allow him to save face.
If two people are in a positive-sum, mutually beneficial relationship then it is very likely that one of them can leverage the relationship for short term gains. "If you really love me, you will cancel on your buddies and go watch that movie I like with me tonight instead" will probably work fine the first time you pull it if your partner is invested in the relationship. On the short-term, tangible level, that is a clear win.
But just because long-term consequences may be more difficult to quantify, that does not mean that they are not there. Every time you pull a stunt like this, your partner is adjusting their valuation of your relationship a tiny bit downwards. Eventually, your partner might suddenly decide to move out and dump you.
Mutually beneficial trade relationships are not so different. I would argue that for past decades, both the US and the EU have immensely profited from the free trade with each other. Zero tariffs are a rather obvious Schelling point. But now Trump with his zero-sum mindset is in charge, and thinks that either the US is fucking someone over, or it is getting fucked over. In the short and medium term, the EU needs trade with the US, so they can not afford a trade war. In the long term, Trump is a red flag. If I was the EU, I would be working hard to secure other trade deals with other nations, so that when another MAGA president decides in a decade that he will not settle for anything less than 30% unilateral tariffs, we are in the position to tell him to fuck off.
What other nation nations? Witch China which we talk down to, with Russia which we hate, with India that will never develop, with Africa that is doomed, with south america that is firmly in US sphere of influence or with Australia, Japan, Korea that depends on US for protection, all while we are crybabies about bullshit like human rights.
We could create a potent anti US union - but we will actually have to do what other players do - play realpolitik. Not play "performative morally superior" just because a century ago some people did bad things.
Exactly. There is no alternative. China and Russia are the only other independent players in the world besides the USA, and China is the only one with a comparable size economy.
If a President decides to squeeze the imperial provinces, they will get squeezed.
Now, the genius move would be to build momentum with these trade deals to try to squeeze China in the near future. China also can't afford to walk away from the table. Let's see how it plays out.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link