site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 12, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

15
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

brave new world/elysium

plebs kept comfortable. all citizens possess a single half-right of procreation. two adults may have a child and combine their half-rights to gain government financial support for that child. half-rights can be bought and sold (the government will always buy them.) clinics that reversibly sterilize will pay-out on completion. hard control of reproduction if financial incentives fail. they won't.

almost categorical automation of labor will happen in our lifetimes. if you do not see the behemoth's lesser shadow named AI art you are myopic, or desperately so. 2050 at the latest. too many jobs will be lost too quickly. it's coming right now, shame how yang turned out, he sees the trees but not the forest. we will be able to feed every mouth. clothe and shelter and cure-all every man. outfit all who wish with perfect VR or direct-brain-interface-experience-simulacra to live their lives in dreams. but why structure that to continue without end? all other incentives may be unnecessary beyond making sure people who want to stay plugged in, can.

policy that ensures each generation reduces by half is inevitable, even if we solve the rocket equation and superluminal travel and stellar shipwrighting allows us to annually dispatch a hundred thousand hands offworld.

from their fortress manors, or new zealand, elites will do what they will.

hard control of reproduction if financial incentives fail. they won't.

They will. We already have rapidly growing sub-cultures who shun certain aspects of modern civilization and average six children per woman

amish et al. will not factor.

such subcultures who otherwise normally engage in society and civics will bend as government subsidy ceases.

policy that ensures each generation reduces by half is inevitable

This has the advantage of being simple within the system(s) you described but also seems really aggressive. Is this really required with people being bored because they're unemployed?

automation will permanently replace >90% of labor by 2100. what few human-necessary roles created by automation will lay within the remaining <10%.

humans have a biosocial capacity for community size. we are biologically fit for communities only insignificantly larger than the number of faces and names recalled by modal memory. large towns and cities are psychically radioactive, chernobyls of the mind, inducing madness. historically "too many people being bored"--bored, restless, purposeless--heralds chaos. in cities where madness already whispers, exploding populations of permanently unemployable young men could see that effect magnified most terribly. technology will solve most issues of the day. it may solve the problem of purposeless young men by giving them lives in artificial reality. if it cannot, disaster will follow.